U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Pets > Dogs
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-15-2008, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,824 posts, read 21,288,846 times
Reputation: 6523

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMan7 View Post
He is aggressive around other dogs in general, male or female. I don't think it's necessarily a "save the family" type aggression - more of a "I'm strong than I look" type aggression. The hair on his back stands up like a mohawk. He thinks he is the only one who has the right to sniff other dogs and when they sniff him, he gets pissed. He doesn't generally bite, but he does growl and snarl a lot.
What you described is classic dominance behavior. Alpha males and females commonly have this trait. I had an alpha female who growled at a new puppy from the day I brought her home until the day I had to put her down 4 years later. She never bit the puppy, but every time the younger dog got near her, she would bare her teeth, raise her hackles, and growl. She also didn't like the puppy playing with me, she would get up from where she was laying and growl at the puppy until the puppy stopped playing with me. It looked very menancing, but she never once attacked the younger dog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMan7 View Post
Another poster noted that he should meet other dogs on common ground - not his own territory or that of another. We have done this and I think he's smart enough to know he has a leash on and is quite obnoxious.
Good advice, neutral territory is the best location to introduce two dogs that are unfamiliar with each other. Make sure the leash is slack enough to allow Dooley to position his head and body in the manner of his choosing. A taunt leash will change the demeanor of most dogs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMan7 View Post
I might also add that we were visiting family in Virginia over the summer (spent 5 days there) and they have a 15 acre farm and 3 dogs (all outdoor dogs, not house dogs like Dooley). We took him off the leash for the entire stay and the first day he was very temperamental, but only physically aggressive toward one dog one time. We figured we would let the dogs do their thing and only intervene if need be. We only had to the one time on the first day. The rest of our trip was quite uneventful and I was surprised to see how well he got along with them. There was the occasional bickering, but he shocked us all with his MUCH subdued behavior.
Dooley was more subdued because he was on their turf, and he knew it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMan7 View Post
Since then, we have introduced him to other dogs regularly and he continues to be aggressive. The more I think about the situation with Dooley, it seems to me he needs to be around another dog for an extended period of time before he calms down and warms up to the idea. We've toyed with getting him a buddy and I think that would resolve his aggression toward that dog, but it's not necessarily a fix for other dogs - [as I stated earlier, we have friends with two corgis and a mixed breed and they all get along great, but once they get around other dogs, their male corgi is aggressive toward other dogs - the protective gig, I'm sure]. I also don't want the responsibility of another dog JUST to try to calm his aggression. That sounds quite irresponsible, especially since we don't really want another dog at this time.
Don't confuse aggressive behavior with dominance behavior. Dominance behavior is all show, aggressive behavior isn't. It is good that you are introducing him to other dogs. Try greeting and petting another dog with Dooley observing before you introduce Dooley to the dog. With you holding or petting the dog he should be a bit more cordial. I would still expect him to growl and bark at the other dog, but it is all show and no substance.

Alpha males and females need to assert their authority and let any new dog they encounter know who is the boss. Once that is established, and the time will vary depending on the other dog, they do tend to mellow somewhat towards the dog. Again, this is dominance behavior, not aggression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMan7 View Post
Every dog is different and that is certainly what makes them unique - and why all of us love them! All of the suggestions are wonderful and I will take each to heart.

Thanks everyone for all your responses!
Every dog is indeed different, personality-wise, but there are certain traits that are common to all dogs. Dooley is the "top-dog" in your home, and he will be certain to let every dog he encounters know it! That is not a trait you can train out of him, he was born that way. Personally, I love alpha males and females, they are my type of dog. I look for that trait when they are puppies.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-16-2008, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Denver/Boulder Zone 5b
1,371 posts, read 3,398,659 times
Reputation: 1410
Excellent advice, Glitch! As I've mentioned twice now, our friends have two corgis and we are working hard on getting them together more frequently. We are meeting up again tonight and will take your suggestions into account!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2008, 10:37 AM
 
Location: St. Augustine, Florida
1,930 posts, read 9,715,319 times
Reputation: 1030
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMan7 View Post
PitBullMommie, you have some great advice here! I have also done extensive reading and have found that many articles indicate that male corgis are often aggressive. My veterinarian has also stated this.

We will look more into the pros and cons of getting him fixed in the near future. I certainly have seen some good positive feedback on this subject in this thread. I thank you for the time to respond!
As I said in my last post, I don't know much about the breed, but if you have also read that male Corgis tend to be somewhat aggressive, and if your vet said the same thing, I'm not sure if neutering will fix that. Again, with him not being fixed he has that strong need to breed. Getting him neutered will help with that.

If it is just a breed thing, neutering would still help because it would take away the need to breed, but you would also have to work with him on his training and socialization. Like I said, we own 3 APBTs. APBTs do tend to have some animal aggression issues. None of ours are animal aggressive at all, but that is because we made absolutely sure they were very well trained and socialized starting at a young age. Even though they have been properly trained and socialized, and even though they are very animal friendly, we still work on socializing them everyday. Just to make sure they don't start to develop animal aggression. That may just be something you have to do as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMan7 View Post
He is aggressive around other dogs in general, male or female. I don't think it's necessarily a "save the family" type aggression - more of a "I'm strong than I look" type aggression. The hair on his back stands up like a mohawk. He thinks he is the only one who has the right to sniff other dogs and when they sniff him, he gets pissed. He doesn't generally bite, but he does growl and snarl a lot.
That, to me, sounds like he just has some dog aggression. Not so much that he is being aggressive because he wants to breed.

Quote:
Another poster noted that he should meet other dogs on common ground - not his own territory or that of another. We have done this and I think he's smart enough to know he has a leash on and is quite obnoxious.
If you don't mind me asking, how exactly do you introduce him to new dogs? In my experience, the best way to introduce your dog to a new dog is to introduce them on neutral ground, yes, but there is a lot more to it than just that. I'm not an expert on this by any means, but this has always worked best for us. We have both dogs on neutral ground and on leashes, but we pretty much just let the dogs do their own thing. The only reason for the leashes is to be able to break up a fight easier. That probably sounds bad, but we have never had to break up a fight while doing this. We will leave the leashes as loose as possible, so that way we don't do anything to trigger a fight.

I think a lot of dog owners don't realize that what they do affects the situation more than one would think. Obviously, dogs can't talk, they communicate with body language. And some of the things we do affects our dog's body language. There are the obvious signs that something might go wrong, like the fur on the neck standing up, growling, etc, but there are several other things to watch for in addition to that. A dog holding his tail up higher than normal and/ or wagging his tail quickly and in a stuff way, holding his head up really high, holding his ears up and back, and/ or getting really stuff and almost puffed up, are all signs of dominance. Any of those things could easily trigger the other dog to attack. Now, like I said, some things we do could cause a fight to break out. For example, if you are holding the leash tight, the tension can cause your dog to get very worked up. It makes him want to move forward and that can easily cause him to attack. Or, because the tension is causing your dog to get worked up, that could cause the other dog to attack to try to get your dog to calm down. Also, I think it's just instinct for us, as dog owners, to pull our dogs back when they look like they are about to fight, but the truth is, that can cause a fight. Even if they weren't going to fight originally. When you pull your dog back with the leash it pulls his head up, and that, to the other dog, looks like your dog is trying to dominate the situation, which can cause him to attack.

Another very important thing to do when introducing your dog to a new dog, is to go into everything as calm as possible. Don't expect the worst because your dog will feed off of that. Your dog can sense what you're feeling, so even if you are acting calm, if you are nervous, excited, scared, mad, whatever, your dog will sense that and feed off of it. You just really have to stay calm.

So, with all of that said, the best way to introduce your dog to a new dog, in my experience, is to first of all stay calm. Have both dogs on leashes and on neutral ground, leave the leashes as loose as possible, stand back and just let the dogs do their thing. Don't hold the leash tight, don't pull your dog back, don't say anything, just watch. You have to keep a close eye on both dog's body language and just be prepare to break up a fight if a fight does break out. Even if the dogs look like they are about to get into a fight, don't do anything unless it is absolutely necessary.

Quote:
I might also add that we were visiting family in Virginia over the summer (spent 5 days there) and they have a 15 acre farm and 3 dogs (all outdoor dogs, not house dogs like Dooley). We took him off the leash for the entire stay and the first day he was very temperamental, but only physically aggressive toward one dog one time. We figured we would let the dogs do their thing and only intervene if need be. We only had to the one time on the first day. The rest of our trip was quite uneventful and I was surprised to see how well he got along with them. There was the occasional bickering, but he shocked us all with his MUCH subdued behavior.
Occasional bickering is completely normal. All of our dogs get along wonderfully, but of course, there is the occasional bickering! lol! I think you just letting the dogs do their own thing was a great idea. I'm sure that had a lot to do with how well they got along.

Quote:
Since then, we have introduced him to other dogs regularly and he continues to be aggressive. The more I think about the situation with Dooley, it seems to me he needs to be around another dog for an extended period of time before he calms down and warms up to the idea. We've toyed with getting him a buddy and I think that would resolve his aggression toward that dog, but it's not necessarily a fix for other dogs - [as I stated earlier, we have friends with two corgis and a mixed breed and they all get along great, but once they get around other dogs, their male corgi is aggressive toward other dogs - the protective gig, I'm sure]. I also don't want the responsibility of another dog JUST to try to calm his aggression. That sounds quite irresponsible, especially since we don't really want another dog at this time.
I definitely wouldn't suggest getting another dog simply to help Dooley get over his dog aggression. That wouldn't be fair to you or the new dog. Plus, that wouldn't really help things, he would just learn to get along with the new dog. To help him really get over his dog aggression you will have to be patient and consistent. Naturally, once a dog has been dog aggressive for a while, it will take a little longer to correct it. Obviously early socialization is the best, and easiest way to go, but it is not impossible to socialize an adult dog and correct his dog aggression. It just take some time, effort and patience.

It really sounds like you know what to do, now it's just a matter of doing it and staying committed. I hope I have helped some, and I wish you and Dooley the best of luck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tulegirl View Post
Just for grins & giggles, The ATTS '06 Breed Temperament Stats can be found at;

ATTS - American Temperament Test Society, Inc. - Home
Have they not done anything since 2006? I would think they would update all of this. I like that site though! A couple that lives three houses down from us own two beautiful Goldens, and when we first moved in, before they got to know our three APBTs, they had a few nasty things to say to us about our dogs. They assumed all of the normal stuff, they told us about a bunch of crazy myths, like our dogs are going to turn on us, they are a danger to everyone around them, they have locking jaws, etc, etc, etc. After only a few days though, once they got to know us and our dogs, they were over all of that! lol! Our dogs and their dogs get along wonderfully and now we will all go to the dog park together, take our dogs to the beach together, etc. They had just assumed that our dogs were these monsters all because of the crazy myths and over-dramatic media hype! It's funny to me that the breed we own, American Pit Bull Terriers, scored 84.1% which is as good, if not better than a lot of other breeds, including Golden Retrievers, which scored 83.8%.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2008, 09:33 PM
 
2 posts, read 13,230 times
Reputation: 10
Default Aggressive Corgi

I had a male, neutered corgi for 10 years. When he was a puppy, he got along with other dogs, but as he got older, he got more dog aggressive.
He LOVED people and never showed any aggression toward people. When we moved to NYC and were around other dogs regularly, at first we would have to cross the street if we were passing another dog. But he got better and better the more we were around other dogs. He never got to the point where he was very playful with other dogs once he was an adult, but he did get to the point where we could let him run around the dog run. We learned to watch for the small warning signs that a snarl was a-comin and then we would warn him to stop. We had to pay attention to him and the subtleties of his facial expressions, but he did eventually learn that he didn't have to freak out and act like a tazmanian devil in order to get another dog to back off. I attribute his behavior to not being around enough dogs when he was young, but almost every corgi I have ever met seems to have a tenacious, very bossy streak that needs to be kept in check. However, I have never seen a corgi actually bite other dogs,,, I've seen them snap and snarl and act like they are gonna tear the other dog's tail off, even get a tuft of hair in their mouths a time or two, which is scary - but it seems to be MOSTLY show. I'm not saying that they don't ever bite - I'm sure they do, but their communication style seems to be a bit over-dramatic.

I have another corgi now who is a year old and has been extremely well socialized. He LOVES playing with other dogs but every once in a while his herding instincts come out and he will nip a heel. Will have to wait and see if his love of other dogs fades as he gets older or not.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2008, 09:35 PM
 
2 posts, read 13,230 times
Reputation: 10
Default Aggressive Corgi.

I've also noticed that Corgis seem to be corgi snobs. They tend to get along better with other corgis and westies.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-12-2008, 03:53 AM
 
Location: Santa Barbara CA
4,922 posts, read 11,219,171 times
Reputation: 9382
Nickman7

You are right in that getting another dog will not fix the problem. Yes your dog maybe would be fine with that dog yet still be aggressive with other dogs.

My Jazz has fear aggression. She was a fearful puppy and was well socialized by going to daycare and a play group. So early socialization does not always help either. She would study the group for an hour or two then take over and control it.Being a herding breed that need for control and order is too hard for her to ignore.

I did get a 2nd dog and she is fine with him and does very well with dogs that are her friends ( as long as they follow her rules) but introducing a new dog does take time. I have found one of the best ways is to walk them side by side and do lots of obedience work as we walk, sits , downs etc and by the walks end she is usually fine with the new dog ( until it breaks one of her rules that is when she may fly at it and enforce her rules but she never has hurt another dog).

Herding dogs are usually bred to take control and Corgis move cattle so have to be tough little dogs that show that toughness to get those cattle to do what they want so I think they tend to have issues with other dogs. They want them to obey just as they want the cattle too.

If you are looking for trainers I suggest you find someone that has training in behavior not just a " dog trainer" as there is a big difference as I found out with Jazz. Most dog trainers gave me the wrong suggestions which I did not follow but instead found Patrick Melese DVM PHD ( in behavior) HUGE difference in the two!

Patrick felt alot of it was genetic and made me realize we sometimes may want a dog to do certain things that it is just not going to be able to do so we need to accept that even when it means changing our plans. Example being Jazz is a fantasic flyball dog with the exception if a dog were to get in her lane and steal her ball ( breaking her rule)she would chase it clear out of the state or if it is slower then her she would jump it to get " her " ball back. She also had issues with passing certain dogs so I had to decide that as much as I wanted to play flyball it was not in the cards for her. Agility yes, flyball no. I do let her play flyball sometimes at club practice but never in a competition where things are wild and crazy.

Walking her and passing other dogs can get aggressive reactions out of her too yet she walks every year in the big dog parade with over 1000 dogs and hangs out at the canine festival afterwards with no problems. So I have just learned what her limits are and we adapt to them best we can.

Some one said "Corgi snobs" seem to like to play with other corgis and not other breeds well that is true with alot of breeds because they have different play styles and behavior quirks that being of the same breed they understand.While another breed may not. When they were younger my two could freak out alot of dogs at the park by playing herding games where they would work together to herd all the other dogs together then not let any of them get out of the herded together group. The poor labs and goldens just did not understand that game at all neither would their owners so some people would see my evil herders there and not come into that part of the park. Now give them a group of herding dogs that understand the game and they would have a wild time trying to herd one another. On the flip side put my poor Dash with a couple boxers known as the " boxer twins" and they would start Boxing him with their front paws and he would not want to play with them because he just did not understand that play style. Why box when you can chase and herd?

People have to stop and think what was this breed bred to do, and was it bred to work in a pack ( like hunting dogs) or alone like most herding breeds? So often the things we see as behavior issues are really just the dog doing what it was bred to do as it is part of the genetic makeup of the dog and can be too difficult to over ride it.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2008, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Denver/Boulder Zone 5b
1,371 posts, read 3,398,659 times
Reputation: 1410
Since it's been months since my last post here, I thought I'd post an update. Moreso for other people who may be considering a corgi.

As always, Dooley is WONDERFUL with people. He loves children and he loves women (he's a heartbreaker). With other dogs, he's very hit and miss. We have worked with him consistently since everyone's great suggestions, but his behavior remains largely unchanged. He is walked twice per day and regularly comes into contact with other dogs. He does fine at first - sniffing and circling - but becomes immediately aggressive the minute the other dog tries it with him. The problem with Dooley is that he doesn't just snarl and raise his hair, he bites. Without us interrupting the scuffle, he could seriously injure another dog.

As some of you have noted, he has a strong herding sense - as all corgis do - and it's apparent with almost everything we do with him. He LOVES to be in charge. We know when to put him in his place, but when it comes to other dogs, there's not much we can do at this point - we've been working with his aggression for several years.

My point is that we love him for who he is. One thing about corgis that no one who owns one can deny is that they are individuals and very unique. They all have distinct personalities and you have to understand this before owning one. He is head strong and highly intelligent. Since being in contact with other dogs is easily avoidable, we just keep him away. He absolutely loves the presence of people and that's fine by us. Sometimes you can't mold a dog to be something it's not (or behave a certain way) and Dooley doesn't like being around other dogs.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2008, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,336 posts, read 29,189,889 times
Reputation: 28762
I didn't read all of the comments, so please forgive me if this was already asked and answered:

Is Dooley only dog-aggressive when he's on a leash? I ask this because my dog is quite snarky with other dogs when he's on a leash and it was explained to me, by a trainer, that dogs have two instincts -- fight or flight. If they don't like the situation, or if the situation turns into one that they don't like, they have those two instincts. And with the leash on, the flight option is removed, and they're left with fight.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2008, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Denver/Boulder Zone 5b
1,371 posts, read 3,398,659 times
Reputation: 1410
Quote:
Originally Posted by DandJ View Post
I didn't read all of the comments, so please forgive me if this was already asked and answered:

Is Dooley only dog-aggressive when he's on a leash? I ask this because my dog is quite snarky with other dogs when he's on a leash and it was explained to me, by a trainer, that dogs have two instincts -- fight or flight. If they don't like the situation, or if the situation turns into one that they don't like, they have those two instincts. And with the leash on, the flight option is removed, and they're left with fight.
He is aggressive both on and off leash.. perhaps slightly moreso on leash, but aggressive in either situation. One of my first posts indicated that we take him to my family's farm in VA once per year and they have two dogs that "guard" the property. When we visit, we let Dooley off the leash and he is extremely aggressive at first, but quickly calms down once he's scolded for his behavior. We are usually there for 5 or 6 days and he only misbehaves for the first hour or so.

We've tried to work out similar situations with friends who have dogs and neighbors, but it rarely works out as well. We tried doing it numerous times per week and we always had to keep the dogs separate - none of our neighbors or friends have aggressive dogs - it's just Dooley.

At this point, we just keep him away as best we can. All other behavioral issues he has are just a result of his individual character; they're not really problems, just his personality. He is a wonderful companion and an irreplaceable member of our family to be sure!

Here are a few pictures that show what I mean!!



Dooley with his DentaBone. Looking for a place to hide it (hint: under my pillow when I'm not looking).



Handsome man striking his photo pose.



Stretchies!!! (he does this on command - it's really quite amusing).



Okay, back to sleep, camera man!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2008, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,336 posts, read 29,189,889 times
Reputation: 28762
I actually have the same problem with my guy -- and he may or may not be part Corgi (nobody knows), not that it's a breed issue really anyway.

Regardless, your Dooley is a handsome little man, that's for sure!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Pets > Dogs
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top