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Old 01-14-2008, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Denver/Boulder Zone 5b
1,371 posts, read 3,398,659 times
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We have a 4 year old Pembroke Welsh Corgi that we absolutely adore. His name is Dooley! He gets along VERY well with people and children, but is extremely aggressive towards other dogs (to the point of injury if we don't get him away). He was not fixed as a puppy as we had intended to breed him, so I know this may be an issue. At this point, we have no desire to neuter him as we have become accustomed to his behavior and don't want other attributes of his personality to be altered.

We have friends who have two Pembis and their male IS neutered and can also be quite aggressive towards "strange" dogs. Is this a common trait?

I am just curious what some thoughts may be...

Photos of the handsome devil below.
Attached Thumbnails
Aggressive Corgi?-img_2273.jpg   Aggressive Corgi?-img_1189.jpg  

Last edited by NickMan7; 01-14-2008 at 10:29 PM..
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:38 PM
 
Location: Texas
692 posts, read 3,676,900 times
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Nuetering doesn't change a dogs behavior. That is one of the biggest myths of neutering. I think this is more of a call to a trainer. No dog should just be left aggressive and nothing is done. If you don't want to nueter him that's fine, but he needs some real hands on training. Not something like a petsmart class, but a really good trainer.

I'd give a few calls to local dog trainers. If you leave him be his behavior will only get worse. It's not fun for the dog either.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:38 PM
 
1,657 posts, read 3,172,424 times
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I used Cesar Milan's method. It really does work. Now I can take my dog anywhere and he is balanced, where as before the training, he was very dog aggressive. I started by muzzling him in social environments and checking ( pull the leash to one side with a quick light jerk) him when he started with any sign of aggression.
It's hard to explain it all, you need to get the book "Cesars way" and I also recommend the first season of "The Dog Whisperer" on DVD, it's pricey but worth it, also, it comes with a short training dvd by him, as a bonus.
Try going to Petsmart with his muzzle on and let him get used to being social, if he growls or shows aggression, check him everytime until he gets it.

Good luck !

Btw, He sure is a cutie !
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Old 01-15-2008, 12:04 AM
 
3,211 posts, read 6,912,538 times
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I don't know much about Corgis except we recently lived next door to two males (age 2 and 4 yrs) who were neutered but allowed to run loose (UGH!). I walk my male dachshund on a leash daily and it got to the point that I had to check to make sure they were not out before we could go walk. They were both very dog aggressive and I have two bites to show for it that I incurred while trying to break up a two against one disagreement. When I was alone and my dog was inside, they were sweeties, but if my guy was anywhere around they were horrid!
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Old 01-15-2008, 04:42 AM
 
Location: The Great State of Arkansas
5,981 posts, read 17,024,314 times
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I personally do not condone taking your dog ANYWHERE that could set him up for failure regardless of muzzles. I have seen dogs flat come out of the leather ones in the heat of the moment of trying to get to another dog. I also would not breed this dog that is possibly showing unstable temperament.

Is your dog aggressive toward all other dogs, or just males? Same sex aggression is actually pretty common. It really doesn't matter in the long run but you simply will not have a totally rounded out, well socialized dog.

I think there's a misperception that we have to "cure" our dogs of every personality quirk that has been present and escalating since puppyhood. The time is long past to try to work this out. Therefore, I would manage him. I would not take him to the dog park. I would not take him to Petsmart. Crate him when going to the vet so you don't have a problem in the waiting room, or go in the back door and go immediately to an exam room and shut the door. I would not take him off lead anywhere, and I would be very careful where I DID take him since you might encounter a dog that is off lead who might also be dog aggressive or just pissed off that your boy wants to take him on. Management is not a bad thing...we don't all have perfect dogs that maintain their manners in every situation. I don't ask my dogs to perform in areas I know they have a deficit, and I appreciate it that they do not ask me to go in high open spaces...and I wouldn't appreciate any person who asked more of me than I can give. I think that's where you are at now. By exposing him to situations he is clearly uncomfortable with you are setting yourself up for a showdown and there's simply no need for that. Keep him at home with the kids and the humans, don't put him in a position to fail, and you will have a long and happy life together. Try to push the envelope and you could end up with a bad situation on your hands. May not be the most popular answer, but it is the most practical.

By way of an addendum, I'd find what works for me and if you are bent on having your dog try to interact with others, get a trainer....one who knows dog aggression and not at Petsmart. It would be a big bonus if you could find someone who is familiar with Corgi temperaments. Not every trainer is good for every breed. Bear in mind it just may not work out, and most trainers will want to assess the dog before trying to put him in a class setting, and rightfully so. Don't get flustered if he flunks the social butterfly test...a lot do. Cesar Milan has some great tips about some things, and some not-so-great ones about other things. Any trainer is going to have their preferences and methods - some work for the individual owner and some don't. I absolutely do not condone the alpha roll in any way, shape, form or fashion, even for the very dog savvy. I think this is dangerous propaganda that is being distributed to the masses and is something he endorses a lot. Don't do it...it's a good way to end up on the wrong side of the teeth.
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Old 01-15-2008, 04:59 AM
 
Location: West Virginia
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Oh My Gosh Your boy looks like my Katie!!! I really believe that you need to teach him that the behavior is bad...Do it with help.
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Old 01-15-2008, 06:33 AM
 
528 posts, read 2,324,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddieXRuxpin View Post
Nuetering doesn't change a dogs behavior. That is one of the biggest myths of neutering.
I disagree....have seen a number of dogs who mellowed out substantially in terms of dog to dog aggression after neutering (several months afterwards, that is). That being said, I have also seen male Corgis who exhibit this behavior whether neutered or not (I bred and showed Pems for a number of years). They can be a tough little breed, quite the big dog in a small package. One cause of this is not enough socialzation around other dogs as a puppy, and allowing the Corgi to get away with tough guy behavior a few times. They are an extremely smart breed, and will figure out quickly how to assert themselves if given the opportunity. I've seen some that practically took over the household, LOL. In this case, I agree with the others who suggested a trainer - working with one is going to be the best approach rather than trying to figure it out on one's own.
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Denver/Boulder Zone 5b
1,371 posts, read 3,398,659 times
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You all have extremely helpful information! I also disagree about the behavior remaining unchanged once a dog is "fixed" - I have seen it many times. We have no desire to see his day-to-day behavior change as he is a wonderful dog and we love him dearly.

I will begin looking into a certified trainer who specializes in corgi behavior and go from there. I had thought of this before, but wanted some other opinions before going forward.

I agree that they are an extremely intelligent breed - it is very apparent. He doesn't run the household and listens quite well, his only behavior problem is the aggressiveness. He has never shown true aggression (playful aggression when we rough-house, yes) towards adults or children. In fact, around children, his demeanor changes completely and he becomes very doscile and calm - almost like he knows he can't play rough with them. It's incredible to see.

I appreciate all of the input!
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Old 01-15-2008, 12:25 PM
 
Location: St. Augustine, Florida
1,930 posts, read 9,715,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMan7 View Post
We have a 4 year old Pembroke Welsh Corgi that we absolutely adore. His name is Dooley! He gets along VERY well with people and children, but is extremely aggressive towards other dogs (to the point of injury if we don't get him away). He was not fixed as a puppy as we had intended to breed him, so I know this may be an issue. At this point, we have no desire to neuter him as we have become accustomed to his behavior and don't want other attributes of his personality to be altered.

We have friends who have two Pembis and their male IS neutered and can also be quite aggressive towards "strange" dogs. Is this a common trait?

I am just curious what some thoughts may be...

Photos of the handsome devil below.
I don't know much about the breed, but from reading over some websites, it sounds like that might be a "normal" thing. One website said that unneutered males will be aggressive towards other males, especially if there's a female around. But that true for all breeds really. If you aren't going to breed him I would strongly suggest getting him neutered. That would be the best thing for him. Not being fixed he's going to want to breed, well, it's really more like a need to him. And since he's not able to satisfy that need it's only natural for him to have some aggression issues.

We own three APBTs, Brooklyn is our male and then we have two females, Destiny and Jayda. We had Destiny spayed back in August and we were going to get Jayda spayed shortly after we got her, but stuff just kept coming up. Our male APBT, Brooklyn isn't neutered, but we will be getting him neutered sometime in the very near future. We didn't have him neutered when he was younger, because like you, we wanted to breed him. We got Brooklyn from a reputable breeder, he's gorgeous, he's healthy and he has an amazing temperament and personality. But after thinking about how many dogs are being abused and neglected these days, how many dogs are living on the streets, how many dogs are in shelters and how many dogs are being put to sleep everyday to make room in the already overflowing shelters for more dogs, we just couldn't breed him. When Jayda went into her first heat, it nearly killed Brooklyn! Brooklyn wanted to get to her so badly that he couldn't even function! He wouldn't eat, he wouldn't drink, he wouldn't sleep, he couldn't stop shaking and drooling (and none of our dogs drool), he just lost it! I felt so bad for him! I knew he would want to get to her, but I had no idea that he would react like that. Anyway, my point is, I can definitely see why unneutered dogs tend to be aggressive. If they aren't neutered they feel that they need to breed, and if they can't, it's really hard on them.

Getting your dog neutered will not change him. He will still be Dooley, your handsome little devil , he just won't feel that strong need to breed. Trust me, getting him neutered is the best thing for him, if you aren't going to breed him. As far as changing the dog, all neutering or spaying does is help with aggression some. Now, if he wasn't well socialized that could be the reason for the dog aggression, and if that's the case, getting him neutered won't fix that. But having him neutered won't change his personality. Destiny, our female that is spayed, is still her same sweet, crazy, goofy self! lol! Having her spayed didn't change her one bit. And I'm not worried about Jayda or Brooklyn changing when they get fixed either. I have owned 7 dogs, including the 3 we own now, and we got all of them fixed, except for Brooklyn and Jayda. Not one of them changed one bit. I don't know any dogs who changed after being fixed.
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Old 01-15-2008, 01:24 PM
 
1,657 posts, read 3,172,424 times
Reputation: 1823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
I personally do not condone taking your dog ANYWHERE that could set him up for failure regardless of muzzles. I have seen dogs flat come out of the leather ones in the heat of the moment of trying to get to another dog. I also would not breed this dog that is possibly showing unstable temperament.

Is your dog aggressive toward all other dogs, or just males? Same sex aggression is actually pretty common. It really doesn't matter in the long run but you simply will not have a totally rounded out, well socialized dog.

I think there's a misperception that we have to "cure" our dogs of every personality quirk that has been present and escalating since puppyhood. The time is long past to try to work this out. Therefore, I would manage him. I would not take him to the dog park. I would not take him to Petsmart. Crate him when going to the vet so you don't have a problem in the waiting room, or go in the back door and go immediately to an exam room and shut the door. I would not take him off lead anywhere, and I would be very careful where I DID take him since you might encounter a dog that is off lead who might also be dog aggressive or just pissed off that your boy wants to take him on. Management is not a bad thing...we don't all have perfect dogs that maintain their manners in every situation. I don't ask my dogs to perform in areas I know they have a deficit, and I appreciate it that they do not ask me to go in high open spaces...and I wouldn't appreciate any person who asked more of me than I can give. I think that's where you are at now. By exposing him to situations he is clearly uncomfortable with you are setting yourself up for a showdown and there's simply no need for that. Keep him at home with the kids and the humans, don't put him in a position to fail, and you will have a long and happy life together. Try to push the envelope and you could end up with a bad situation on your hands. May not be the most popular answer, but it is the most practical.

By way of an addendum, I'd find what works for me and if you are bent on having your dog try to interact with others, get a trainer....one who knows dog aggression and not at Petsmart. It would be a big bonus if you could find someone who is familiar with Corgi temperaments. Not every trainer is good for every breed. Bear in mind it just may not work out, and most trainers will want to assess the dog before trying to put him in a class setting, and rightfully so. Don't get flustered if he flunks the social butterfly test...a lot do. Cesar Milan has some great tips about some things, and some not-so-great ones about other things. Any trainer is going to have their preferences and methods - some work for the individual owner and some don't. I absolutely do not condone the alpha roll in any way, shape, form or fashion, even for the very dog savvy. I think this is dangerous propaganda that is being distributed to the masses and is something he endorses a lot. Don't do it...it's a good way to end up on the wrong side of the teeth.
Sam I am- dangerous propaganda...gimme a break !

Just to clarify, I never said get a trainer from Petsmart. I said "let your dog get use to being social" at Petsmart.

All Im saying is the Cesar training worked really well for me, after spending a lot of money on two different trainers and not seeing any results, so I know what Im talking about, since I've done it !

How can a dog be a dog if he can't be around other dogs !

The answer is definitely not to lock your dog up in every social sitch, imo, thats bad advice.
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