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People are telling me that large dogs frequently have growing pains. Does anyone have experience with this?
We have never had a large breed of dog before. Yesterday my DIL called in a panic that her puppy (5 month old Dogo Argentino) all of a sudden could not walk...just laid down. She called the vet after hours and they told her to go to the ER, which she did. This morning she took the puppy from the ER to our regular vet who said it was growing pains and with treatment (for pain, I guess) the puppy will be OK. She has to stay at the vet for a few days.
I am only hearing the details second hand at this point, but I am hopeful this is fairly common and that all will be well?
I admit that last night I was worried that the puppy had a congenital problem and would need to be put to sleep. I hope that's not it.
growing pains are normal for large breeds, but ive never heard of a vet keepign a dog in for a few days because of it...
its usually just baby asprin and home on a baby asprin regime.
so id be concerned either theres somethingmore going on, or the vet is milking it...
with large breeds growing pains are most frequent when the puppy is getting too much protein...
large breeds shouldnt be on a large breed food and NO puppy food, (dane breeders are frequently combatting this problem and most refuse to feed any kind of large breed or puppy food becuase it exhasperated the issue.)
instead make sure puppy is on a good quality all lifestages food, supliment with glucosamin and NO forced excersize (running in the garden and short walks on leash are fine but no jogging, no long walks on concrete ect)
id be asking the vet why exactly has the dog been admitted, unless theres soemthing else going on theres no reason for your neice to be paying the fees associate with being an inpationt for something they will be treating with low dose asprin at the office.
Thanks, foxy. The thing is, the dog was totally immobile last night...would not/could not walk at all. My feeling is that the vet is making sure there is nothing else going on, and keeping her until she improves...finding the right medicine to keep her comfortable. Also, she had a fever of 105, so maybe they want that to get to normal first, too.
My DIL is by herself and works crazy hours. Since my son is deployed, I'm glad the vet is keeping the dog until she is somewhat better. I hope, at some point, this can be controlled with a few aspirin until she outgrows it. I don't know what the vet has said yet, but I'll pass on your tip about the food.
I would have to say that I disagree with the diagnosis. I have never seen a puppy get a fever of 105 with panosteitis or "growing pains." But then, I'm not a vet. Fever is typical of panosteitis but 105 is extremely high.
Has the dog been vaccinated against Parvo? Not sure why I thought of it but Parvo immediately came to mind. If and when Parvo gets really bad, it can affect the central nervous system. However, if the pup has had ongoing Panosteitis that has not been properly treated, it may have gotten so bad that this is the end result.
If possible, get a second opinion. She doesn't need to remove the dog from care; just advise her to call around to other vets, describing the symptoms and what happened, and asking that they consult with the treating veterinarian.
And, actually, protein is not really the [only] issue with growing pains in large breeds, it's also fat content, levels of calcium as well as calories consumed and expended and type and level of exercise:
The best thing that an owner of a growing pup can do is to choose a high quality dog food, or a carefully planned natural diet, which does not have too much calcium, nor too high a percentage of protein. Recent studies show that the balance of calcium and phosphorus is the most important dietary consideration for a growing puppy followed closely by the amounts of protein and fat. Most breeders recommend a maximum of 26% protein and others like to see the pup switched to an adult formula by the age of 4 months. Diet may be the single most important aspect of puppy development (especially when coupled with exercise) under an owner's control. Listen carefully to your breeder's recommendations, they usually know what suits their lines best.
Protein levels in diets for large and giant breed dogs were once thought to play a major role in the incidence of developmental bone diseases in young dogs. The seminar presented sufficient data to completely refute this false hypothesis. High protein levels in the diet were found to have no effect on the incidence of disease. Low protein levels were found to play a major role in inhibiting the maximum developmental potential of individual dogs.
The energy (calories) in a particular diet was found to play a major role in the incidence of bone disease in young growing large and giant breed puppies. Also the amount of food fed and the method of feeding were found to have an impact on the incidence of problems. Pups fed free choice or ad lib had a far greater incidence of disease. Pups fed high calorie diets in excess were also at risk. Increasing calories consumed, increased the rate of growth, which increases the stress on the bones and encourages developmental bone disease to occur.
You actually do want to feed a puppy adequate levels of protein and fat, but you need to be careful with calcium and phosphorous ratios. Typically, you need to switch to lower protein when they get older/senior, as older dogs' kidneys simply can't handle high levels of protein:
20- 25% protein is not too high, in fact for a growing puppy it is not enough... Calcium is the LAST thing you want to give this dog. It is the imbalance of the calcium/phosphorus ratio that can start problems like this in large breeds.
What is most important is the ratio of nutritional components as well as the proper feeding of food in proportion to the amount of exercise of the puppy. Too much and too little exercise (as well as too much or too little protein and fat) can exacerbate the problem, and lots of running but, especially, jumping are not good for a growing, large breed puppy, especially one that has been diagnosed with the disease.
I hope that helps. Unfortunately, nearly all veterinarians agree that the cause of pano is actually still unknown. Most of the above are current theories re: the disease. Whatever you do, get a second opinion.
Last edited by StarlaJane; 05-17-2011 at 11:53 AM..
Growing pups should only be fed a high quality growth-type diet which you continue feeding this diet until your dog reaches 80 to 90 percent of his anticipated adult weight. For most dogs, this occurs around 9 months of age.
Giant breed dogs pose a special problem. These breeds are prone to skeletal problems if not fed properly during their growing phase. There are now special diets for giant breed pups For optimal health, feed your giant breed pup this special diet until he is 12 to 18 months of age.
Once your puppy has reached the age for a diet change, gradually begin changing his diet by feeding ¼ adult food and ¾ puppy food for a few days. Then add ½ adult food and ½ puppy food. After a few more days, feed ¾ adult food and ¼ puppy food.
Yes, this dog has had all her shots.
My understanding about the fever is that dogs get fevers due to inflamation, not just because of an infection, and 105 is not seriously high for a dog. So this tends to explain the fever.
The dog was seen by the Emergency vets last night at one hospital, and her regular vet is a group practice, so I feel that there are several doctors involved in her treatment.
This is all new, so there may be other developments later. I haven't heard all the details, but I'm sure there will be dietary instructions from the vets. I do know that she was so active that her owners feel she was a bit on the skinny side, even though she was allowed to eat any time she wanted and almost never finished her food.
I just want the puppy to be healthy and happy, since she's such a lovable joyous creature, and we'll all stop at nothing to help her get better.
Yes, this dog has had all her shots.
My understanding about the fever is that dogs get fevers due to inflamation, not just because of an infection, and 105 is not seriously high for a dog. So this tends to explain the fever.
The dog was seen by the Emergency vets last night at one hospital, and her regular vet is a group practice, so I feel that there are several doctors involved in her treatment.
This is all new, so there may be other developments later. I haven't heard all the details, but I'm sure there will be dietary instructions from the vets. I do know that she was so active that her owners feel she was a bit on the skinny side, even though she was allowed to eat any time she wanted and almost never finished her food.
I just want the puppy to be healthy and happy, since she's such a lovable joyous creature, and we'll all stop at nothing to help her get better.
Normal temps are 100-102.5 F, with the average at 101.3. 105F is very high.
My dog had panosteitis as a puppy and never ran a temp that high or got so sick that she collapsed. That puppy is very ill. It is worrisome that she has gotten that sick under the care of a veterinarian.
The advice of another doctor in the practice does not constitute what is referred to as "a second opinion." But hey, it's just what I would do if it were my dog. In fact, if it were my dog, I would have taken her to a different vet a long time ago.
I do not know if I would call it "growing pains." I came home from work one day to find Buddy (my Boerboel) flat out refused to come up stairs. When I attempted to check him out for injuries he growled at me, something he has never done before, and sat in my foyer shaking. I did not let his growl intimidate me, but I was very gentle when I checked him out. He had no signs of injury, no wounds of any kind, no blood, and his gut/belly felt normal, not stiff or extended. I could find no obvious problems.
After a couple of hours of sitting in the foyer he finally came up stairs, but only one step at a time and very slowly. I made an appointment with the vet the next day. Buddy was still in pain the following day (his gums were whitish instead of his usual pink color). The vet took his rear legs and stretched them fully extended to the rear, checking for a pulled muscle or torn tendon. She also checked the same things I did the day before. Her diagnoses was that Buddy had either pinched a nerve or tweaked his spine. She prescribed some doggy-downers and told me that if the problem persisted for a week, to bring him back in for another exam.
After the third day on the doggy-downers Buddy was back to himself again, bounding up the stairs two at a time, like he was never injured. To this day I have no idea what the problem was, but Buddy's pain was very real.
flat out cant/wont move plus a 105 fever id be getting a second opinion myself, sounds like ALOT more than growing pains.
with "growing pains" pain and inflamation is normal and a puppy gets achey and may have trouble getting up, running around ect, but ive never seen a dog with a case so bad that they refuse 100% to move...
this worries me even more given the puppies breed, DOGOS have an extreemly high pain tolerance, they tend to be incredibly stoic, NEVER showing they are in pain, and it has to be sever if they show it...
they were bred specifically as hunting dogs, more specificlaly bred to hunt very large and dangerous game, pain tollerance and lack of "show" is a very strongly bred trait in the breed so id be on the vets butt about this one...
it doesnt sound "normal" to me. (ive worked with very large-giant breeds for many years (mastiff of all kinds from dogo to bull, to dane to corso, ect) all of which can be prone to "growing pains" but ive never heard of a case so bad the dog refused to move at all and ran a fever that high. 105 is dangerously high!
it certianly doesnt sound congenital...
id say more likley bacterial/viral (and a dog can still contract parvo even if its had all its regular vaccines...)
BUT in not a vet (just was a tech for a couple of years before i whent into the zoo world) but i certinaly wouldnt take "its growing pains and were medicating" as an asnwer at this point...
Growing pains is only what I called it, but I do not remember the actual name for what she has. It is not panosteitis, because it is not the long bones that are the trouble, it is the joints.
I haven't heard how she is doing today, or if there have been any changes in the information from the vet.
Until I'm told otherwise, she will grow out of it and be fine.
Y'all are right about the fever. 105 IS very high. The vet said it is good DIL went to the ER because if the fever had gotten any higher, it could have done a lot of damage.
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