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Old 10-27-2008, 12:15 AM
 
Location: San Salvador, El Salvador
567 posts, read 1,412,403 times
Reputation: 266

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I bought two puppies about a month and a half ago, and I want to kill them!

When I finally got them to go on the newspaper, they decided to switch things up on me and started pissing and number 2'ing all over my apartment.

I know what you're thinking. How do I know they were trained to use the paper? I'll tell you, for 2 weeks straight I watch them come out of their crate, find the newspaper I laid on the floor and then I watched them do their business.

As of Tuesday last week they decided to switch things up.

Do you guys have any advice, because I'm thinking about shipping them off to some Asian country to become the house special.

Last edited by mental_complex; 10-27-2008 at 12:26 AM..
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Old 10-27-2008, 12:21 AM
 
4,198 posts, read 14,606,950 times
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Two puppies are twice the work esp. in the beginning, not to mention twice the expense (vacc's etc can get pricey). They also tend to bond to each other (not you) which you dont want. Would get them separate crates for that reason, would skip the papertraining as it's just an extra step now that they have to unlearn later (giving them permission to 'go' inside), would take them outside quickly when they wake up, after they eat, etc - keep them on leashes so you know who's doing what (or not doing what). I had dogs close in age but never siblings so I'm not sure if I'd take them outside together or separately. The idea of the leash (even if your yd is fenced) is that it gives you some control, they're out there to go, not to play, they can play later. Hope some of this helps.
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Old 10-27-2008, 06:41 AM
 
Location: California
10,091 posts, read 40,091,009 times
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Great advice above. I too, could never understand the use of newspapers or those puppy pads. Giving permission to use the inside of the house as a toilet! You don't say how old they are...but I would start from scratch. As soon as they wake...take them out! As soon as they finish a meal...take them out and every 30 min to 45 min...take them out. As soon as they do their business, praise the heck out of them...and bring them back in immeadiately, so they learn the reason they were taken out in the first place. You can not expect a puppy to "hold it" until you are ready to take them out...when they have to go...they go!
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Old 10-27-2008, 07:52 AM
 
7,079 posts, read 36,520,474 times
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Let me just say as a preamble, not everyone lives in a house. If you lived on the 9th floor of an apartment building and below are the noisy, crazy Manhattan streets, paper or pad training is the way to go. Given that it takes five minutes for the elevator to arrive and it stops on a gazillion floors before you get to the ground level, a puppy wouldn't necessarily make it that far.

First, you don't say how old your puppies actually are. They have to mature into being able to control their bladders. Every few hours and after every 10 minutes of play, they'll need to void. But 99% of the time they don't even KNOW that they need to go - just like a human baby.

Like human infants, they have NO control over their bladder or bowel for quite a while and if they 'go' where you don't want them to it's not their fault - YOU need to control where they go.

Getting a portable baby gate to keep them in a room with a washable floor is a recommended solution for that problem, but do NOT keep them in a bathroom: too many toxic things and no ventilation!

Second, you need to be very patient and consistent. I'm putting my housetraining method below. Follow it TO THE LETTER: leash up your pups and go out with them (only in your own yard until they've received their 16 week Parvovirus vaccination). BRING GREAT TREATS WITH YOU. Dogs rank their treats and these treats have to be SPECIAL. Make sure everyone in the house is consistent. I can't emphasize enough how important that is.

Again, follow these directions exactly and you'll have a trained dog. NOT right away, but eventually. And, remember, it takes MONTHS for them to mature neurologically enough to control their bladder and bowel.

Housetraining your dog (puppy or adult!)

The first thing you need to do is to remember that you’re trying to reinforce a new behavior. That means that the rewards for this behavior must be WONDERFUL. NOT crap from the store. Wonderful treats are poached chicken breast/turkey breast, cheese and steak. And you don’t have to use big pieces. Tiny pieces (about 3mm cubes) are just fine! I poach a whole turkey breast every few weeks, cut it into hunks when it’s cool enough to handle, wrap them well and store them in the freezer. When I need some, I’ll thaw a hunk overnight and cut off pieces and dice finely, storing them in a plastic bag in the fridge. One hunk will last about five days. Cheese is also popular, so variety is fine.

I carry these plastic bags in my jacket pockets in the winter and in a fanny pack in warmer weather. You HAVE to have these with you, or this method won’t work, because you need to reward as soon as the dog finishes pooping or peeing. It’s not going to work if the rewards are in the house.

Remember that you’re trying to change a very ingrained behavior. Some dogs like to feel certain things under their feet when they eliminate, like fabric, or newspaper. This is called a ‘substrate preference.’ What you’re trying to do is change this substrate preference, and to do that you have to make the treats SO wonderful that the dog will change this very well-entrenched behavior. Thus the chicken, cheese, steak.

I love clicker training, but this can be done without clickers. You just need a way to ‘mark’ the behavior you want to reinforce. Use the word ‘YESSSSS!!!!’ very enthusiastically – that works for some.

You’re going to need to GO OUTSIDE WITH your dog and the dog needs to be on a leash. Yes, even in winter. If you don’t reward IMMEDIATELY after the event (when dog immediately finishes pooping or peeing) and wait inside, the dog is going to be reinforced for coming inside, not for doing its business. So, leash up your dog. STAND IN ONE PLACE. Be boring. Bring a book or magazine for yourself.

Eventually, the dog will do what you’re waiting for. The NANOSECOND that the dog is finished, HAVE A PARTY – lots of loud, high-pitched praise, treats and running around. You want to make this memorable for your dog! You’ll find that once the first event is achieved, the others will come more quickly. Keep on treating (you don’t have to throw a party except for milestones – a milestone = if he only pooped outside but now peed, too, or something equivalent to that) until he’s good and used to peeing/pooping outside. Before you know it, you have a trained dog.

Regarding accidents in the house: NO SCOLDING. Just clean them up. If you scold you’ll get the dog to think it’s bad to pee or poop and he’ll do it in places you won’t see. Until you step in it. Invest in a big bottle of Nature’s Miracle or Simple Solution and use it liberally on accidents.

With young puppies, remember they have little control of the muscle that holds the bladder closed. This is something they grow into. Just as it’s not expected that a human baby is toilet trained at six months, don’t expect much from a puppy. Patience, patience, patience!!!! The nervous system in a puppy has to mature, and it won’t have much control over the sphincter (closing muscle) at the neck of the bladder until six or seven months. The same goes for the anal sphincter. Until control is achieved, both of these muscles operate on reflex: there are stretch receptors in the bladder wall. When the bladder is full, it sends impulses to the spinal cord and these, in turn, send signals to the sphincter to open and the dog pees.

In the stomach wall, there are also stretch receptors. So when the dog eats and the stomach is stretched, the impulses again go to the spinal cord, but this time the reflex, outgoing, nerve signals are sent to the anal sphincter, so the dog defecates. This operates in people, too – which is why some people rush to the ‘reading room’ after a meal – especially breakfast.
__________________
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Old 10-27-2008, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Some place very cold
5,500 posts, read 21,455,632 times
Reputation: 4301
Quote:
Originally Posted by mental_complex View Post

Do you guys have any advice, because I'm thinking about shipping them off to some Asian country to become the house special.
Yes, I have some advice. Do not become a pet owner!
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Old 10-27-2008, 11:04 AM
 
3,061 posts, read 7,893,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof Woof! View Post
Yes, I have some advice. Do not become a pet owner!
x2.

If you are as vocal and mad at them when they do these things, as you are in writing about it, the poor pups will never be the dogs you want them to be.

Puppies are ALOT of work, and a lot of patience. When they have a mistake, do NOT yell at them, do not say anything. Ignore them. When they go outside, give them ALOT of praise and a little treat. They will begin to associate going outside with good things. You want to reinforce the good, not dwell on the bad.

If you feel they are too much work, then in the best interest of the pups, please find them new homes.
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Old 10-27-2008, 12:03 PM
 
Location: "The Sunshine State"
4,334 posts, read 13,019,770 times
Reputation: 3045
Yikes, why do some people get dogs?
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Some place very cold
5,500 posts, read 21,455,632 times
Reputation: 4301
Let's hope the O.P. finds a new loving home for these babies while they are still young and adoptable.
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Old 10-27-2008, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Jax
8,200 posts, read 33,902,375 times
Reputation: 3420
The OP is frustrated with the situation, let's try to keep the thread helpful for the sake of all involved - the OP and the pups. Thanks. -mod
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:49 AM
 
Location: SC
543 posts, read 2,262,179 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlisonL View Post
x2.

If you are as vocal and mad at them when they do these things, as you are in writing about it, the poor pups will never be the dogs you want them to be.

Puppies are ALOT of work, and a lot of patience. When they have a mistake, do NOT yell at them, do not say anything. Ignore them. When they go outside, give them ALOT of praise and a little treat. They will begin to associate going outside with good things. You want to reinforce the good, not dwell on the bad.

If you feel they are too much work, then in the best interest of the pups, please find them new homes.
Agree 100%!
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