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Old 08-19-2009, 07:23 PM
 
4,627 posts, read 10,473,344 times
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I found this news quite hopeful.

Pressure mounts to euthanize Denver's Pit Bull ban - KHOU Animal Attraction (http://www.beloblog.com/KHOU_Animal_Attraction/2009/08/pressure-mounts.html - broken link)

And this is interesting:

"In fact, when it comes to the 2,000 dog bites studied in Colorado between July 2007 and June 2008, research shows Pit Bulls are not top attackers. That title goes to Labrador Retrievers" Go figure~
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Living on 10 acres in Oklahoma
1,188 posts, read 5,534,831 times
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Long read but a good read. I truly hope that Denver ends up repealing their BSL. Serveral valid points were mentioned backed by recent scientific studies. I can only imagine what good dog owners and good dogs have had to endure that lived/live in Denver.

Tried to "rep" you SeeBee for sharing a good article...but it wouldn't let me...I need to spread my love (lol)!
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:42 AM
 
Location: Tejas
7,599 posts, read 18,410,769 times
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It would be absolutely fantastic if Denver got rid of this law. Our City Council used Denver as a "shining example" when I was fighting BSL.
It may even give me a reason to move there since I cant currently go because i own a "grenade".


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Old 08-21-2009, 07:43 AM
 
Location: "The Sunshine State"
4,334 posts, read 13,662,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
It would be absolutely fantastic if Denver got rid of this law. Our City Council used Denver as a "shining example" when I was fighting BSL.
It may even give me a reason to move there since I cant currently go because i own a "grenade".

Funny! Love your doggie Brian, he is so cute!
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:33 PM
 
1 posts, read 3,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeBee View Post
I found this news quite hopeful.

Pressure mounts to euthanize Denver's Pit Bull ban - KHOU Animal Attraction (http://www.beloblog.com/KHOU_Animal_Attraction/2009/08/pressure-mounts.html - broken link)

And this is interesting:

"In fact, when it comes to the 2,000 dog bites studied in Colorado between July 2007 and June 2008, research shows Pit Bulls are not top attackers. That title goes to Labrador Retrievers" Go figure~

In my opinion, the issue has little to do with the frequency of attacks, but rather the violence and intensity when they do occur. If you read a little further down the article, it points out that the CDC found that Pit Bulls are at the top of the list with fatal attacks. So it is not so much their demeanor that makes for a potentially dangerous animal, but rather their capability to inflict damage. And this, it seems, is what differentiates Pit Bulls from other breeds.
In fact, as I was leaving work today, I glanced across the street and saw a Pit Bull attack a Golden Retriever (both dogs were on leashes). Only this attack did not consist of what you would see in an average dog fight, with a lot of snarling and gnashing of teeth. Rather, the pit bull went straight for the head/neck area and clamped down on the other dog and wouldn't let go. The owner of Golden Retriever was histerical and didn't know what to do, while the Pit Bull's owner attemted to yank his dog away, without success. It was not until after the owner full-on PUNCHED his dog 5-6 times did it finally let go. Luckily I think the Golden Retriever was okay. Darn scary though.
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:42 PM
 
Location: "The Sunshine State"
4,334 posts, read 13,662,846 times
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Like I always say, it is never the dogs fault. Some people should just not be the owner of any dog. Too many owners are irresponsible and so many of them make their dogs aggressive either thru training or abusive situations. So no, I would not blame any specific breed. I think if any dog goes out for a full vicious attack, severe damage can be done. The bigger and stronger the dog, the injuries will be more severe. I would say a rottie, akita or doberman can do more damage than a pitbull. Even an agressive shepard.
I once stopped and asked for directions with my son. A man came to the window on the passenger side with his shepard. His dog was not leashed. My son reached out and said can I pet your dog? The man said the dog would tear him to pieces as he said it was a police trained dog. Why was his dog lose with him in the street?
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:52 PM
 
4,627 posts, read 10,473,344 times
Reputation: 4265
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
It would be absolutely fantastic if Denver got rid of this law. Our City Council used Denver as a "shining example" when I was fighting BSL.
It may even give me a reason to move there since I cant currently go because i own a "grenade".
I don't think a repeal will happen in the very near future, but there are veterinary organizations on board now which can only help.

Brian, I admire you for not giving up on your Dakota. You're the kind of fighter I'd want in my corner.
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:23 PM
 
4,627 posts, read 10,473,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdubs View Post
If you read a little further down the article, it points out that the CDC found that Pit Bulls are at the top of the list with fatal attacks.
I posted this as some sort of support for pittie owners. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion, but using the model of 'frequnecy of attacks' was part of the rationale for the ban in the first place. Since that proved false, tactics change.

And in the report attack and bite are used interchangeably. Attack is used when a pittie, rott, shepherd are involved. Bite is used when a more popular breed is involved. That verbage is part of conditioning. IMO***

The decision to ban a particular breed should not be based upon an attorney's notions or one sentence culled from a CDC report (that's also in the report). The entirety of the CDC report referenced was never considered.

I find BSL extremely frightening. I also find it extremely frightening that BSL allows animal control to knock on your door, take a particular breed of dog - or a breed that resembles a banned breed - and kill it. No evidence of viciousness needed. Does that type of absolute government control not disturb you?

Has any country every claimed success with BSL leading to a reduction in severe attacks or fatalities? If so, I haven't found one. In fact, I believe it was in the Netherlands where a pittie ban over 25 yrs long did absolutely nothing to change stats - severity of injuries or frequency of bites. Absolutely nothing.

In the case you personally witnessed, I can guarantee you that is not the first time that person's dog went out of control. That is a case where the dog is running the household, has been completely indulged and has not been trained. I know that makes the dog more volatile, but please blame the owner.

Anyway, the push to overturn that ridiculous ban is great news to me. Perhaps more educated, calmer minds will prevail someday.

"Train 'em, don't blame 'em."
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Tejas
7,599 posts, read 18,410,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdubs View Post
In my opinion, the issue has little to do with the frequency of attacks, but rather the violence and intensity when they do occur. If you read a little further down the article, it points out that the CDC found that Pit Bulls are at the top of the list with fatal attacks. So it is not so much their demeanor that makes for a potentially dangerous animal, but rather their capability to inflict damage. And this, it seems, is what differentiates Pit Bulls from other breeds.
In fact, as I was leaving work today, I glanced across the street and saw a Pit Bull attack a Golden Retriever (both dogs were on leashes). Only this attack did not consist of what you would see in an average dog fight, with a lot of snarling and gnashing of teeth. Rather, the pit bull went straight for the head/neck area and clamped down on the other dog and wouldn't let go. The owner of Golden Retriever was histerical and didn't know what to do, while the Pit Bull's owner attemted to yank his dog away, without success. It was not until after the owner full-on PUNCHED his dog 5-6 times did it finally let go. Luckily I think the Golden Retriever was okay. Darn scary though.
The CDC themselves said the study was flawed. You call it a Pit its a Pit simple as. When Dogs fight they usually go for what is closest, which is the head and neck so I wouldnt think too much into the dog biting a GR's neck. A hysterical owner is not exactly a good thing when dogs get in a fight, they add to the confusion and can make a scenario worse, which I think that owner did. If dogs fight like they did if both owners remain calm it could be split up pretty easily.
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Old 08-22-2009, 09:30 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,769 posts, read 40,176,155 times
Reputation: 18106
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdubs View Post
In my opinion, the issue has little to do with the frequency of attacks, but rather the violence and intensity when they do occur. If you read a little further down the article, it points out that the CDC found that Pit Bulls are at the top of the list with fatal attacks. So it is not so much their demeanor that makes for a potentially dangerous animal, but rather their capability to inflict damage. And this, it seems, is what differentiates Pit Bulls from other breeds.
I agree. Every dog breed has distinctive characteristics, including their temperament. There is no one perfect dog breed. Each has its positives and negatives. Pit bulls are strong dogs and with a high prey drive and a tendency to be dog aggressive. As someone that lives in a densely populated family neighborhood, having a pit bull would be unwise as even with a good dog owner, the pit could be a great family dog yet aggressive to dogs outside his household. And as a woman, it distresses me to know that I would be physically unable to interrupt a dog attack with a pit bull involved.

My miniature rat terrier is a very feisty and protective dog, but I keep him within my fenced in yard. But if we were in public, I can easily pick him up to remove him from annoying anyone or any dog. And that's why although little dogs are among the most annoying and overly protective of the dog breeds, they are tiny and of little threat to anyone.

I like Austin, TX's ordinances on what to do with a deemed dangerous dog:

Quote:
City ordinance about dangerous animals

According to city ordinance, a dangerous animal is one that:
1.Without provocation, inflicted substantial bodily harm on a human being on public or private property;
2. Killed a domestic animal without provocation while off the owners property; or
3. Been found to be potentially dangerous, and after the owner has notice that the animal is potentially dangerous, the animal aggressively bites, attacks or endangers the safety of humans or domestic animals.

Also according to city ordinance, there are requirements to keep a dangerous animal:

If the City Council does not order the destruction of an animal that has been declared dangerous, the City Council may, as an alternative, order any or all of the following:
1. That the owner provide and maintain a proper enclosure for the dangerous animal as specified in Subd. 20 above;
2. Post the front and the rear of the premises with clearly visible warning signs, including a warning symbol to inform children, that there is a dangerous animal on the property as specified in M.S. § 347.51 as may be amended from time to time;
3. Provide and show proof annually of public liability insurance in the minimum amount of $300,000;
4. If the animal is a dog and is outside the proper enclosure, the dog must be muzzled and restrained by a substantial chain or leash (not to exceed six feet in length) and under the physical restraint of a person 16 years of age or older. The muzzle must be of a design as to prevent the dog from biting any person or animal, but will not cause injury to the dog or interfere with its vision or respiration;
5. If the animal is a dog, it must have an easily identifiable, standardized tag identifying the dog as dangerous affixed to its collar at all times as specified in M.S. § 347.51 as it may be amended from time to time, and shall have a microchip implant as provided by M.S. § 347.151, as it may be amended from time to time;
6. All animals deemed dangerous by the Animal Control Officer shall be registered with the county in which this city is located within 14 days after the date the animal was so deemed and provide satisfactory proof thereof to the Animal Control Officer.
7. If the animal is a dog, the dog must be licensed and up to date on rabies vaccination. If the animal is a cat or ferret, it must be up to date with rabies vaccination.
Source: City of Austin
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