Am~track all over again? (Minneapolis, Duluth: school, living in, costs)

[snofarmer]

Am~track all over again?

I see the rail line between Duluth has a chance of being a reality again.

It's not going to be high speed.
It's still going to take 2+hrs. one way.

It didn't work last time why will it work now?

So it's still a 4hr commute,round trip, not counting how you will get the rest of the way to work?

You'll still need a better than AVG job in my opinion to utilize it. (to live in Duluth and commute)

But, IF it does work it could be a shot in the arm that Duluth needs. (Tax base and school kids)

but Do Duluthens really want the change that it will bring to the community?

[bbtrips]

Originally Posted by snofarmer

Am~track all over again?

I see the rail line between Duluth has a chance of being a reality again.

It's not going to be high speed.
It's still going to take 2+hrs. one way.

It didn't work last time why will it work now?

So it's still a 4hr commute,round trip, not counting how you will get the rest of the way to work?

You'll still need a better than AVG job in my opinion to utilize it. (to live in Duluth and commute)

But, IF it does work it could be a shot in the arm that Duluth needs. (Tax base and school kids)

but Do Duluthens really want the change that it will bring to the community?

Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of it all. I guess the max speed is about 110 mph, but there are several stops. I think it would make a lot of sense to do a morning train that has no stops and a late afternoon/early evening train with no stops so that it could be used as a commuter train. The one thing I would hope it would help with is the Friday afternoon northbound traffic jams and the Sunday afternoon southbound traffic jams. Those are getting to be pretty insane.

I was pretty young when Amtrak was operating, but I thought the Duluth to Twin Cities route was actually one of the profitable routes across the country, but that they just cut a lot of routes when we lost service?

If the speed was increased to more than 110 mph - I can't even imagine what a change that could mean for Duluth. So many of my friends in the Twin Cities say that they would live up here if they could find a comparable job. I would have to think there would be some possible satellite operations for businesses expanding from the Twin Cities, and at least some business/office growth near the terminal.

What does everyone else think? I personally wouldn't use it too much. My two kids live with me and if we went down to the Twin Cities it would be more reasonable to drive down and then we would have our vehicle. I would LOVE to be able to just chill on the train on the way down, and perhaps if we wanted to go to a ball game, it would make sense, but just couldn't justify the expense too often.

[snofarmer]

I may not use it personally
but for commuters it could be a determining factor.
Duluth a bedroom community.

We would proubely use it to send the grand kids back and forth to mpls

[DarkWolf]

I don't think Amtrak is going to Duluth , it would be a state run passenger line.

[snofarmer]

We already had Am-Track, it was slow speed also.
Thus the title.

It will come and go just the same.

With out it being high speed it's just another boondoggle.

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

I don't think Amtrak is going to Duluth , it would be a state run passenger line.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by snofarmer

We already had Am-Track, it was slow speed also.
Thus the title.

It will come and go just the same.

With out it being high speed it's just another boondoggle.

Not everything needs to be HS , 80-110mph is fast enough....Duluth is no Minneapolis or Chicago or Winnipeg which would warrant anything about 110mph.

[GBCommenter]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Not everything needs to be HS , 80-110mph is fast enough....Duluth is no Minneapolis or Chicago or Winnipeg which would warrant anything about 110mph.

I see you are at least currently in NJ. Were you originally from MN and/or Duluth? I'm trying to get some context for your assertion that "80-100 MPH is enough". I'm not trying to pick a fight, just sincerely inquiring.

In any case, it seems to me the OP is positing that if this train were to go 110 MPH from Duluth to Minneapolis, a ride would be somewhere in the ballpark of 1 1/2 hours - which could make it somewhat plausible for someone to live in Duluth and work in Minneapolis (not me, that's still too long a period of time) or businesses could plausibly have operations in Duluth and get to Minneapolis for larger airport access, etc.

My concern is that even if things go nicely like posited on paper in terms of speed, it's still all a boondoggle of government spending to support political favors. No public transit system I know of runs profitably without never-ending subsidy. Frankly, if it was profitable why is the private market not inquiring further on making their own line? In the end, it's another way to waste precious dollars on something that can't show worth on its own - in an era when we are spending dollars like they are going out of style (and, if the Fed gets QE3, 4, 5, 6, whatever, may indeed make dollars go out of style in the same fashion as the German Mark in the Weiwar Republic, or Zimbabwe Dollar more recently).

[DarkWolf]

Transit systems aren't supposed to run on profit , neither are roads or General Bridges....its Infastrature. Rail subsides tend to be less that of Roads and sometimes they do turn a profit. If you want faster then 110mph , you need a larger population , Transit usage would have to be higher in both cities. While that will be the case in a few years in the Twin cities , not so much in Duluth. The Reason why Private Market doesn't get into Freight or Passenger is the rules that date back to the 1970s which where created to benefit big Freight and squeeze out the Passenger industry which rebounded in the 90s. If you have every visited the Coastal Northeast you'll notice that we have great Transit and fast trains...most lines hit up to or are rated to 90mph. Which is fast , most trains in Europe go 90mph with the exception of the High Speed Rail which goes 120mph+. And No i'm not from Duluth or MN , but I know alot about the Railroads in this country....

[Duluth07]

Well, I've mentioned this in the past. But yea, the high-speed rail thing isn't going to work. A few years ago I thought it was a possibility, but when you really look at the plans - the 160 mile trip one way from Duluth - Minneapolis is just too far. If we were 100 miles away, it would be a lot different. When I was in Toronto, I noticed people commute via high-speed rail (GO Train) to Toronto on a daily basis, but they have express trains, the affluence is much greater, and the demand is there. Duluth has very few people with money anymore - they've mostly disappeared over the last two decades.

The difficulty is what about the people who are still here. Many are still living in Duluth simply because they can't afford to live anywhere else. If you are already struggling to live in a cheap city like Duluth, you will never survive in a larger one. Which means a lot of people are having to rely on public transit. We do have Jefferson Lines to Minneapolis and Eau Claire, but from Duluth - International Falls (165 miles north)? Nothing. Duluth - Grand Marais - Thunder Bay? No transit. Duluth - Grand Forks? No buses. Because Duluth is the only place in Northern Minnesota with an advanced medical campus (Essentia Health), those who don't have money for a car, and aren't lucky enough to have friends to drive them, are stuck. I know it costs a lot to have a regular Greyhound service between towns that are far apart and may only have 4-5 passengers per trip, but there has to be a way to transport people to and from Duluth to these communities so they can get to the services they need. Has anyone seen the Skyline Shuttle in Duluth (that minibus-thing that goes to and from the Minneapolis Airport?)...I wonder if that would be a viable option to have a trip from Duluth - International Falls and Duluth - Thunder Bay maybe three days per week.

[HuskyGrad]

Originally Posted by Duluth07

Well, I've mentioned this in the past. But yea, the high-speed rail thing isn't going to work. A few years ago I thought it was a possibility, but when you really look at the plans - the 160 mile trip one way from Duluth - Minneapolis is just too far. If we were 100 miles away, it would be a lot different. When I was in Toronto, I noticed people commute via high-speed rail (GO Train) to Toronto on a daily basis, but they have express trains, the affluence is much greater, and the demand is there. Duluth has very few people with money anymore - they've mostly disappeared over the last two decades.

The difficulty is what about the people who are still here. Many are still living in Duluth simply because they can't afford to live anywhere else. If you are already struggling to live in a cheap city like Duluth, you will never survive in a larger one. Which means a lot of people are having to rely on public transit. We do have Jefferson Lines to Minneapolis and Eau Claire, but from Duluth - International Falls (165 miles north)? Nothing. Duluth - Grand Marais - Thunder Bay? No transit. Duluth - Grand Forks? No buses. Because Duluth is the only place in Northern Minnesota with an advanced medical campus (Essentia Health), those who don't have money for a car, and aren't lucky enough to have friends to drive them, are stuck. I know it costs a lot to have a regular Greyhound service between towns that are far apart and may only have 4-5 passengers per trip, but there has to be a way to transport people to and from Duluth to these communities so they can get to the services they need. Has anyone seen the Skyline Shuttle in Duluth (that minibus-thing that goes to and from the Minneapolis Airport?)...I wonder if that would be a viable option to have a trip from Duluth - International Falls and Duluth - Thunder Bay maybe three days per week.

GO Transit is a commuter rail system similar to Metra and the North Star. HSR is generally considered in the US within distances if 200-500 miles.