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I agree with almost everything you said. Like I mentioned, in my 2 years here I have seen tons of changes so it's really cool to see.
I wish there was some sort of Venue for music. Maybe something like that could be done for NorShor. It would be cool to have an actual venue, but they don't really make money. Duluth does a good job at brining in mid-market acts to the DECC, like Rob Zombie, and those kind of semi-super star, too big for towns like St. Cloud and Mankato, but still willing to do shows in Duluths, Fargos, and Rockford, ILs.
It gets old having to drive to the Twin cities for every act out there.
The biggest thing Duluth can do is tackle the housing stock. Either buy and destroy or hold landlord accountable for their properties. I used to work for a City in the MEtro where we would have Code Enforcment. We woudl send threatening letters to homeowners if they had grass too long, poor siding/roof/facia/paint, junk in yard, overgrown landscaping, etc. If they didn't comply it resulted in a $45 fee. The city made big time money, plus kept neighborhoods clean. Probably sounds evil right? This was PRAISED by homeowners and they LOVED it. It held people accountable. If you are wanting to have a stack of junky rubber tires on the front lawn, cool, but you're going to get threatening letters and a fine.
Do homeowners in Duluth NOT understand that even poor paint and a broken windown can lower property values? Ever heard of the Broken Window theory? If a kid walks through a neighborhood and see's a house with a broken window, that kid is more likely to throw a rock through the neighbor's window than had they never seen the broken one. It's all trickle-down. If your neighbor in Duluth has a crappy looking house, you're less inclined to 'keep up with the Joneses' thus resulting in a crap house you live in.
Funny, my neighborhood totally revitalized in the last two years. Every house (including mine) has new paint, siding, additions, and landscaping. The trickle down works the other way too. I even had people a block over ask me for siding samples so they could fit in the color skeem of the neighborhood.
I think Duluth has that code enforcement law just in the last year. I hope it is succesful.
First, I agree completely. However, there are a disproportionate number of absentee landlords contributing to that problem. Second, there are a lot of elderly on fixed incomes that can't fix up their houses and there are too few assited living (although that has changed slightly with newer places being built). Last, Duluth has 19% of it's population under the poverty line and obviously they can't afford a home or to fix one up if they have it. (If challeneged, I can find the source. Someone on this forum went back and forth about the stagnant population of Duluth and growth of Hermantown after three different sources I provided said the same thing).
Thank you, thank you for noticing that Duluth is stagnant and not in full decline any longer. Very few people seem to get that.
See, that's what I mean. Duluth is in Such a tough spot. I feel like major employers don't want to relocate here because they see the decay, but then the decay is going to stay because there just isn't that disposible income to spend on 'fixer up' stuff...
Do you have any details on the landlord law that they always talk about in papers here? What's up with that? I could do research, but I like C-D discussion.
That's cool that City of Duluth is making landlords accountable. I know landlords personally, and many of them have a bad attitude. like - "whatever, my mortgage for the house is $1000, but it has 5 rooms and I charge each kid $350, so I make about $400 on it each month, why do I care if it looks like crap, it's still gonna get rented EITHER WAY"
Funny, my neighborhood totally revitalized in the last two years. Every house (including mine) has new paint, siding, additions, and landscaping. The trickle down works the other way too. I even had people a block over ask me for siding samples so they could fit in the color skeem of the neighborhood.
I think Duluth has that code enforcement law just in the last year. I hope it is succesful.
Yes! That's exactly what I was getting at!.. Since I've been here I've seen so much change I keep asking "So why does it still look like this" But from what I've heard, the changes have just started since about 2004 or so, but it's great to see. Just since I've lived here they've built - Culvers, Hell Burgers, BWWs, Texas Roadhouse, Residence Inn... Added on to the DECC, rennovated a handful of Downtown Buildings, added a couple skywalks, and Ness has vowed to fix the streets (AWESOME).
Honestly, Duluth is breathtaking and I think that soon as a few home start getting turned around, it's going to trickle the right way, like you mentioned....
I think I said this before, but to me, the best part of Duluth is the neighborhoods. You actually know which neighborhood you're in, and they all have their own business districts
I agree with almost everything you said. Like I mentioned, in my 2 years here I have seen tons of changes so it's really cool to see.
I wish there was some sort of Venue for music. Maybe something like that could be done for NorShor. It would be cool to have an actual venue, but they don't really make money. Duluth does a good job at brining in mid-market acts to the DECC, like Rob Zombie, and those kind of semi-super star, too big for towns like St. Cloud and Mankato, but still willing to do shows in Duluths, Fargos, and Rockford, ILs.
It gets old having to drive to the Twin cities for every act out there.
The biggest thing Duluth can do is tackle the housing stock. Either buy and destroy or hold landlord accountable for their properties. I used to work for a City in the MEtro where we would have Code Enforcment. We woudl send threatening letters to homeowners if they had grass too long, poor siding/roof/facia/paint, junk in yard, overgrown landscaping, etc. If they didn't comply it resulted in a $45 fee. The city made big time money, plus kept neighborhoods clean. Probably sounds evil right? This was PRAISED by homeowners and they LOVED it. It held people accountable. If you are wanting to have a stack of junky rubber tires on the front lawn, cool, but you're going to get threatening letters and a fine.
Do homeowners in Duluth NOT understand that even poor paint and a broken windown can lower property values? Ever heard of the Broken Window theory? If a kid walks through a neighborhood and see's a house with a broken window, that kid is more likely to throw a rock through the neighbor's window than had they never seen the broken one. It's all trickle-down. If your neighbor in Duluth has a crappy looking house, you're less inclined to 'keep up with the Joneses' thus resulting in a crap house you live in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Cann
See, that's what I mean. Duluth is in Such a tough spot. I feel like major employers don't want to relocate here because they see the decay, but then the decay is going to stay because there just isn't that disposible income to spend on 'fixer up' stuff...
Do you have any details on the landlord law that they always talk about in papers here? What's up with that? I could do research, but I like C-D discussion.
That's cool that City of Duluth is making landlords accountable. I know landlords personally, and many of them have a bad attitude. like - "whatever, my mortgage for the house is $1000, but it has 5 rooms and I charge each kid $350, so I make about $400 on it each month, why do I care if it looks like crap, it's still gonna get rented EITHER WAY"
And that's too bad.
You'll see less of that when there are new apartments for college kids. Rents will come down and landlords will have to sell or fix up to be competetive.
I'll look for that landord law.
Part of the reaosn major employers don't locate here is the union mentality and the NIMBy folk that refuse to allow new development like the 5 people against the walgreens at Kenwood and Arrowhead or the 15 people against the hotel at Park Point and a narrow minded planning comission that agrees with them.
First, I agree completely. However, there are a disproportionate number of absentee landlords contributing to that problem. Second, there are a lot of elderly on fixed incomes that can't fix up their houses and there are too few assited living (although that has changed slightly with newer places being built). Last, Duluth has 19% of it's population under the poverty line and obviously they can't afford a home or to fix one up if they have it. (If challeneged, I can find the source. Someone on this forum went back and forth about the stagnant population of Duluth and growth of Hermantown after three different sources I provided said the same thing).
Thank you, thank you for noticing that Duluth is stagnant and not in full decline any longer. Very few people seem to get that.
Regarding your last paragraph-------Duluth is stagnant and not in full decline anymore.
I doubt that the two "experts " ( one has lived in Duluth 2 years and one 8 years) have any idea what Duluth was liked in it's boom years when population was much higher and those old houses were much newer.
The collapse of the iron ore/taconite industry/shipping and closing of the steel mills really hurt.
Adding a few more college students or building a mall doesn't replace what Duluth lost---------jobs + population.
Restoring the first ( jobs) then the second (population) will follow.
I don't even live in Duluth but have been a frequent visitor in the 60's, 70's, 80's,90's, and 2000.
Having seen/known relatives who lost their jobs years back, I am sure they would agree with my assesstment over some longtime (sarc) residents who have only lived there for 2 and 8 years. ")
I moved back here and have lived here now for 8 years. My family lived here when unemployment was 18%. I think I know how tough it was through living through it and feel fortunate to be able to live here now.
Never claimed I was an expert. So, **** off.
Last edited by newcastle; 06-11-2010 at 07:34 PM..
Regarding your last paragraph-------Duluth is stagnant and not in full decline anymore.
I doubt that the two "experts " ( one has lived in Duluth 2 years and one 8 years) have any idea what Duluth was liked in it's boom years when population was much higher and those old houses were much newer.
The collapse of the iron ore/taconite industry/shipping and closing of the steel mills really hurt.
Adding a few more college students or building a mall doesn't replace what Duluth lost---------jobs + population.
Restoring the first ( jobs) then the second (population) will follow.
I don't even live in Duluth but have been a frequent visitor in the 60's, 70's, 80's,90's, and 2000.
Having seen/known relatives who lost their jobs years back, I am sure they would agree with my assesstment over some longtime (sarc) residents who have only lived there for 2 and 8 years. ")
Marmac, not too sure what you're trying to argue.
Are you saying that since I've lived here two years that I have no place stating how crappy of a city Duluth is?
I'm not an idiot. I have read books. I am a professional in the Urban Planning Field. I understand all of Duluth's history and didn't have to 'visit' in the 60s to get an understanding.
I know all about Duluth's downfall. I own a book on the topic itself.
Keep assuming that everyone on this website is an idiot....
And honestly, what's your assessment? That jobs help a community? Woah man, great assessment, where'd you get that PhD of assessing things, Yale?
Any idiot can say that jobs are a direct correlation to the economic sustainability (and growth) of an area.
I know that Duluth lost tons of jobs in the late 70s and throughout the 80s. I know that. I get that. I get Duluth's history.
But you know what Marmac, it's not 1987 anymore. Move on. Move forward. Progress. Have unique ideas, and have a strong citizen push and following and the city can move forward. That's what I'm talking about. Boo Hoo, yeah get over it, your city lost a ton of jobs, now it's 30 years later, it's time to move along . Quit crying and whiining about how great Duluth once was or how great Duluth could have been. Get over it.
I think it's that a couple new stores and more college students won't bring back to when Duluth was actually a decent place to live. The mines and steel mills used to pay pretty well then all the steel industry in Duluth packed up, and you're lucky to have a job at one of the mines or taconite plants since they still pay decently. The new jobs, the few that they are, aren't as good as the old ones.
Now, having a decent job is pretty rare; college students and malls and hotels don't really bring those. The things I've heard proposed here and by the city gov't may make here a nice place to visit or even go to college, but I don't see them making here a decent place to live.
Quote:
Are you saying that since I've lived here two years that I have no place stating how crappy of a city Duluth is?
It means that 2 years isn't all that much time to really get to know all the ins and outs of the place. I don't think anyone from Duluth would consider you a Duluthian.
Quote:
I'm not an idiot. I have read books. I am a professional in the Urban Planning Field. I understand all of Duluth's history and didn't have to 'visit' in the 60s to get an understanding.
Quote:
I know all about Duluth's downfall. I own a book on the topic itself.
Quote:
I know that Duluth lost tons of jobs in the late 70s and throughout the 80s. I know that. I get that. I get Duluth's history.
Yeah, reading a book will make you understand all of Duluth's history...
Quote:
But you know what Marmac, it's not 1987 anymore. Move on. Move forward. Progress. Have unique ideas, and have a strong citizen push and following and the city can move forward. That's what I'm talking about. Boo Hoo, yeah get over it, your city lost a ton of jobs, now it's 30 years later, it's time to move along . Quit crying and whiining about how great Duluth once was or how great Duluth could have been. Get over it.
Marmac isn't from Duluth, as he said, he's visited a lot. I think he's from Stearns Cty.
I think it's that a couple new stores and more college students won't bring back to when Duluth was actually a decent place to live. The mines and steel mills used to pay pretty well then all the steel industry in Duluth packed up, and you're lucky to have a job at one of the mines or taconite plants since they still pay decently. The new jobs, the few that they are, aren't as good as the old ones.
Now, having a decent job is pretty rare; college students and malls and hotels don't really bring those. The things I've heard proposed here and by the city gov't may make here a nice place to visit or even go to college, but I don't see them making here a decent place to live.
It means that 2 years isn't all that much time to really get to know all the ins and outs of the place. I don't think anyone from Duluth would consider you a Duluthian.
Yeah, reading a book will make you understand all of Duluth's history...
Marmac isn't from Duluth, as he said, he's visited a lot. I think he's from Stearns Cty.
The OP asked-------" will duluth ever see 100,000 again ? "
Apparently Duluth, at one time, was at 100,000.
Despite a couple "experts" trying to downplay the 15% decline by stating it is now stagnant and no longer dropping, that still is an uphill battle to hit 100,000.
Anytime anything drops by 15%, some resemblence of what made it 100,000 will have to return.
Realistically, in Duluth's case and much of the iron range, they are not returning.
College students, low wage jobs, and young "experts" who read books isn't gonna bring Duluth back to 100,000 people.
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