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The basic difference between liberals and the rest of us is that while we are living in the real world and dealing with real life situations, liberals read text books and study statistics and formulate opinions based on BS. That is why the liberals do not actually support business, or the military, or law enforcement, or any of the other people who actually deal with and have actual experience with real life situations. They would prefer to support government, bureaucrats, government unions, lawyers, and other non productive parasites on society.
The basic difference between liberals and the rest of us is that while we are living in the real world and dealing with real life situations, liberals read text books and study statistics and formulate opinions based on BS.
1. You are the one quoting laissez fair Milton Friedman textbook garbage that has never shown to be correlated to real life. Milton Friedman, who is probably a god of yours, was the king of text book nonsense that had no applicability in reality.
2. Statistics compiled by government agencies are the most scrutinized in the business. Deriving information from them is far safer then asking some pinhead about his empirical experiences.
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Originally Posted by jimhcom
They would prefer to support government, bureaucrats, government unions, lawyers, and other non productive parasites on society.
Ironically, rank and file "liberals" do not support most of that. Support for most of those are derived from the oligarchic plutocracy created from the bastard children of big business and career politicians.
1. You are the one quoting laissez fair Milton Friedman textbook garbage that has never shown to be correlated to real life. Milton Friedman, who is probably a god of yours, was the king of text book nonsense that had no applicability in reality.
I am quoting no one, I am telling you what I have learned by actually doing something you have no knowledge of, but by all means do not let that stop you from trying to pass yourself off as the foremost authority on the subject.
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
2. Statistics compiled by government agencies are the most scrutinized in the business. Deriving information from them is far safer then asking some pinhead about his empirical experiences.
There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. They can be manipulated, and interpreted any way someone desires. They are useless to someone who does not have a working knowledge of the subject to begin with. (Like You)
When you can demonstrate that you have some knowledge of this subject I will be happy to debate it, but for now your opinion is just that, and has no credibility
There is a reason 95% of new small businesses fail. It is because they do not make enough money to cover their expenses.
There is a reason people make up statistics....
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Originally Posted by jimhcom
And what is their largest expense? Payroll.
This is in general false, how payroll compares to revenue completely depends on the industry.
Anyhow, the minimum wage in the US is very low and the vast majority of workers are making more than it. If anything minimum wage laws would be inflationary and push the cost of goods up, but there is little evidence even this occurs.
For myself personally, one employee can produce around 40~50 pieces on hour. At minimum wage that is $.18 cents each and these are things I sell with a profit-margin (excluding labor) of around $10. Of course, I'd never pay someone minimum wage, you don't get value at minimum wage rather teenagers with attitudes that don't work hard.
If anybody is interested in the reality of getting rid of minimum wage laws I welcome them to visit the manufacturing districts of Los Angeles. Don't worry when you arrive, you are still actually in the US despite the fact that it looks like a 3rd world. In these areas you have a big black-labor market, many people are making below minimum wage and yet you still have unemployment.
Anyhow, the minimum wage in the US is very low and the vast majority of workers are making more than it. If anything minimum wage laws would be inflationary and push the cost of goods up, but there is little evidence even this occurs.
You are making the assumption of full employment. In a bad economy increased minimum wage only results in less employment.
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Of course, I'd never pay someone minimum wage, you don't get value at minimum wage rather teenagers with attitudes that don't work hard.
Some businesses like restaurants and small retail have no choice but to use teenagers or entry level workers. It is often a struggle for them to find people who are worth minimum wage. When was the last time you got what you would consider good service from a teenager, or anyone else for that matter? I find myself constantly walking away from businesses shaking my head and wondering how they stay open with their poor customer service.
Higher income workers and government workers are not suffering from the recession at anywhere near the degree that lower income private sector workers are. No wonder some people deny the severity of the recession, it does not affect them. Workers with salaries of $100k or more have unemployment in the 4% range.
Contrast that with the unemployment rate of the lowest group, which had annual household incomes of $12,499 or less. The unemployment rate of that group during the fourth quarter of last year was a staggering 30.8 percent. That's more than five points higher than the overall jobless rate at the height of the Depression.
Government job losses are less that 4% compared with 9.7% for the private sector.
Wow, got to love the terrible assertions...pretty much a failure from the start. Such as the Appeal to Authority (You don't know till you have owned a business, so you know nothing of business). Which pretty much steals the argument here (and here) in absurdity about Stats and decision making. So I guess it means we should base decisions on how we feel about things, and propaganda spouted by our partisan adoration, instead of research and fact.
That anyone defined as Liberal is against anything "wholesome and good".
Then the almost Andrew Schlafly like anti-intellectualism that anyone who is educated has no actual knowledge or experience in doing anything at all. That anyone (or any "common person") would be better just winging it, without any knowledge or experience in the matter, then having any education or learning. Which is a funny position because the main proponent of this kind of definition of "real life" over "any education" (Schlafly) wants to re-translate the bible as well, despite not knowing any of the original languages.
You are making the assumption of full employment. In a bad economy increased minimum wage only results in less employment.
I'm not making any assumption, if you look at the wage statistics for full-time adult workers you'll find that few are making minimum wage. Furthermore, the minimum wage laws don't apply to self-employed people. So if someone really could not "create value" at minimum they could become a day laborer, etc.
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Originally Posted by jimhcom
Some businesses like restaurants and small retail have no choice but to use teenagers or entry level workers.
They have a choice there are many restaurants and small retailers that pay more than minimum wage. For example In 'n out burger in California pays more than minimum wage, yet their food is just as cheap as any other fast food place (its also fresher than most places too).
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Originally Posted by jimhcom
When was the last time you got what you would consider good service from a teenager, or anyone else for that matter?
Every time I go to In 'n out burger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom
I find myself constantly walking away from businesses shaking my head and wondering how they stay open with their poor customer service.
And you think that the customer service would be better if they paid their employees less?! One can hardly subsist on minimum wage.
Anyhow the minimum wage laws exist to prevent employer abuse and since they are so low they do not distort the markets much. Contrary to this "businesses are gods" view of matters, many businesses will exploit low-skill laborers given the chance. Those evil regulators in California shut-down sweat shops all the time in LA, but I guess you think they should stay open right? What about child labor? Is that good too? Free markets right?
Some businesses like restaurants and small retail have no choice but to use teenagers or entry level workers. It is often a struggle for them to find people who are worth minimum wage. When was the last time you got what you would consider good service from a teenager, or anyone else for that matter? I find myself constantly walking away from businesses shaking my head and wondering how they stay open with their poor customer service.
Maybe you are getting what you paid for? You think those teenagers are happy working for minimum wage? You think you are going to get any body who could give two damns about what they are doing for minimum wage? When you offer a dirt wage, you get a "dirt" employee. You pretty much get people who couldnt get a job anywhere else, are permanatley looking for something better, or who couldnt care less about the job because they dont really need it.
They have a choice there are many restaurants and small retailers that pay more than minimum wage. For example In 'n out burger in California pays more than minimum wage, yet their food is just as cheap as any other fast food place (its also fresher than most places too).
Jim absolutely cannot understand this concept. Im sure if you checked the bottom line, the owners of In N' Out are simply taking a little out of their profit margin to stay price competitive with the McDonalds down the street.
Since they are price competitive on a fairly substitutable good, they are likely able to gain more business by food quality and customer service.
Jim never took any basic business courses, but Im sure even he can understand the concept that even at a lower profit per customer, the same gross profit can be achieved as someone with a higher profit per customer.
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