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View Poll Results: Would you turn in your Gold to the government if the decided to confiscate it, like in 1933?
Yes it's our duty 0 0%
It won't happen for may reasons 5 11.63%
Screw the Government they can't take what they can't find 38 88.37%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-03-2010, 10:47 PM
 
692 posts, read 3,137,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferretkona View Post
People do not trust the gov as they did decades ago. No one will get in line or answer the door when they come looking for the gold. Any taken would have to be legally purchased at current value.

That might or might not be the case, but what if they come for it when it is $2500 per ounce and it then continues to Explode to the Upside to $3000 to $5000 per ounce.
Do you really think they will Reimburse you for the lost further Gains ???
Thats the point....
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Old 07-03-2010, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,035,115 times
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Gold is just an overpriced metal, why would I own it?
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Old 07-04-2010, 12:16 AM
 
1,020 posts, read 2,528,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Gold is just an overpriced metal, why would I own it?
Because it's GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD (imagine me in a straw hat and five teeth). It's valuable just because, and it's the only real money... just because.

What I find so funny, though, is that people who denigrate the dollar as just a worthless piece of paper then value gold WITH DOLLARS. They wonder why people still see the greenback as valuable. Well, if you expect to get something in return for said dollars, it's "valuable."
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Old 07-05-2010, 03:35 PM
 
2,709 posts, read 1,035,368 times
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A government that would confiscate gold is not my government.
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:15 PM
 
171 posts, read 443,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
What Gold?

:-)
Exactly!
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Old 08-07-2010, 05:20 PM
 
692 posts, read 3,137,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox View Post
No Way ... I would secretly and safely bury it.

Get a piece of PVC Pipe with end caps. Cement the caps on 1/2 of your stash so they are water tite.

Leave one lid snug but loose on the second 1/2 for access.

Then keep your eyes and ears open for a safe way at the right time to sell some on the black market or ? ... if the price goes bonkers.

Hold some Quality Mining shares as well as Bullion/Coins for diversity. Sell with a click of the mouse.

They not only want to Steal your Gold but also your Cash by Devalueing the Dollar.

This could get UGLY down the Road.


Update !!!!!!

Here is another way to look at that senerio should it happen somewhere ahead and it COULD...... Even if this gets repealed.



When Nancy Pelosi said we have to pass the bill before we can find out what’s in it, few had any idea that the Obama health care legislation would expand well beyond the health care industry.

According to an ABC news report [1], the new 1099 provisions [2] in the health care bill, which will force business owners to declare all purchases over $600 on their yearly tax return, will also directly affect the sale of gold coins and bullion:

Section 9006 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act will amend the Internal Revenue Code to expand the scope of Form 1099. Currently, 1099 forms are used to track and report the miscellaneous income associated with services rendered by independent contractors or self-employed individuals.

…

Starting Jan. 1, 2012, Form 1099s will become a means of reporting to the Internal Revenue Service the purchases of all goods and services by small businesses and self-employed people that exceed $600 during a calendar year. Precious metals such as coins and bullion fall into this category and coin dealers have been among those most rankled by the change.

…

So every time a member of the public sells more than $600 worth of gold to a dealer, Piret said, the transaction will have to be reported to the government by the buyer.

The new legislation works in both directions to track the buying and selling of gold.

Essentially, any transaction over $600 will be logged buy the dealer, whether you buy $600 or more worth of gold, or sell it back to the dealer.

Since the transaction will require a social security number (or federal employer identification number) to be logged at the time of sale or purchase, this new legislation gives the government the capability to track every single precious metals purchase (over $600) in the country.

While the legislation implies that taxation of such transactions to generate additional revenue is the goal, precious metals buyers, who generally like to remain anonymous, will most certainly see that the real issue in this instance is not taxation, but the ability to track who owns the gold.

When the US government ran into money problems in the 1930’s, Franklin Roosevelt confiscated all gold held in the hands of the public, and those who refused to give up their gold were either fined or imprisoned. Incidentally, the communists in Russia and eastern Europe did the same thing throughout the 20th century, but those penalties went a bit further than just imprisonment.

With a US dollar currency crisis and a US federal government debt crisis looming, many precious metals investors are concerned that similar government action may be instituted in the future.

Though it has been argued by many that confiscation in the US would not be necessary or feasible, the 1099 legislation certainly makes it easier to identify who has the gold.

Of course, those who purchase prior to January 1, 2012 will be “off the books,†until that time when they attempt to sell their gold to a registered dealer who will be required to log the transaction.

There’s a reason economist Marc Faber [3] advised clients that they should hold their gold outside of the US [4].

Historically, when the economic or political **** hits the fan, governments have always moved to seize precious metals from the citizenry. The Nazis did it in World War II. The US did it in the 1930’s. The Bolsheviks did it in 1917. Rome did it by removing 90% of the silver from their coinage.

It is conceivable that, because of global economic problems, governments like the US, China and EU may once again make a move to “repatriate†the gold belonging to their citizens. Even if this is avoided, the tracking capabilities that have been provided for in the Obama health care legislation now give the government the ability to know exactly who buys how much gold, as well as an easy tracking mechanism for taxing the transaction. Rather than confiscating your gold, they may simply tax your profits at 95% at the point of sale, virtually wiping out the very reasons for why an investor buys precious metals to begin with.

This is why we advocate a diversified strategy for gold investing and wealth preservation that includes not only the acquisition of bullion here at home, but if you have the capability, international storage of physical metals (i.e. Singapore, Australia via Perth Mint, Hong Kong, South America, etc.). Though you may lose some gold in the event of a confiscation or extreme taxation in one country, you may be able to retain some wealth internationally. We also recommend looking into the purchase of gold equity ETF’s like the Market Vectors Gold Miners (not commodity ETF’s like GLD) that give you direct shares of some of the top gold companies in the world.

And of course, for those without the ability to invest internationally, buy off the books while you still can and keep your gold out of sight of potentially prying eyes. Once the $600 reporting period begins, be sure to change dealers regularly, as the $600 is a yearly accrual based on the social security number or federal EIN. The other option after January 1, 2012, of course, is to keep your purchases and sales under $600. This can be achieved with fractional gold coins (though the price of gold may rise significantly taking these above the $600 threshold as well) or one ounce silver coins which trade for significantly less than gold.
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Old 08-07-2010, 09:03 PM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,521,015 times
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The OMIGOD-it-is-a-1099 sthick is rather overblown.

Folks here that have real businesses have had to issue 1099 for years for anything we declare is a business expense that is not being purchased from a corporation. bfd.

The various Gold Dealers doing the buying not have to issue 1099s if they do not want to claim their purchases are business expenses.

Real world folks just buying and selling Gold between each other (and not declaring it a business expense) do not have to generate 1099s.

And neither do the sellers, even if they are a business.

So there seems to be some serious bs generation in that article.
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Old 08-08-2010, 12:15 PM
 
692 posts, read 3,137,584 times
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Phillip T.

This is not about Business Expenses. It is about Precious Metal Dealers and their "Purchases and Sales".
That is there Business, and this new law requires they follow the new rules.
Starting Jan 1,2012 if I go into a Dealer and ask to buy or sell $601 worth of Gold Coins, they will be required to follow the new rules .. Period.


This is just the Beggining Attempt of many different possible approaches by the Government.

Don't you wonder why they snuck this in to the Health Bill ??

Why did they even make this attempt at all ??

Because they are already looking ahead and are concerned what might happen.

Look at the moves being made now by other Countries like China, Russia, and many others into the Gold arena.

It's part of an attempt by our Government to Dampen the Demand for Gold and Silver before it possibly goes to the Moon.

I wish the solution was as easy as folks just buying and selling Bullion and Coins to one another.
That could happen on a small scale, but I don't see it that way for larger amounts.

It's not just about 1099's. It's about all the Various Devious Tacticts that could be put in place if they get really serious down the road.

If you do not Invest in or hold Precious Metals, then you do not have to be concerned.

Otherwise You Do.
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Old 08-08-2010, 04:15 PM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,521,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox View Post
Phillip T.

This is not about Business Expenses. It is about Precious Metal Dealers and their "Purchases and Sales".
That is there Business, and this new law requires they follow the new rules.
Starting Jan 1,2012 if I go into a Dealer and ask to buy or sell $601 worth of Gold Coins, they will be required to follow the new rules .. Period.


This is just the Beggining Attempt of many different possible approaches by the Government.

Don't you wonder why they snuck this in to the Health Bill ??

Why did they even make this attempt at all ??

Because they are already looking ahead and are concerned what might happen.

Look at the moves being made now by other Countries like China, Russia, and many others into the Gold arena.

It's part of an attempt by our Government to Dampen the Demand for Gold and Silver before it possibly goes to the Moon.

I wish the solution was as easy as folks just buying and selling Bullion and Coins to one another.
That could happen on a small scale, but I don't see it that way for larger amounts.

It's not just about 1099's. It's about all the Various Devious Tacticts that could be put in place if they get really serious down the road.

If you do not Invest in or hold Precious Metals, then you do not have to be concerned.

Otherwise You Do.
It is hardly unique to Gold dealers. They are just be held to the same standards we folks with real businesses have had to do for Years. Decades, looking back. I agree that it has "crept up," and now includes that we 1099 corporations, as well as individuals, like in the past.

But where in ANY of this do you get the idea that a Buyer of Gold (or any other product) does or will get 1099'ed? A 1099 is generated by the Buyer (not the seller) and only when it is a declared business expense. What is so hard to grasp about this?

As far as concern about what is in the Mandatory Corporate Purchase of Health "Insurance" Bill (has little to nothing to do with Health Care), I tend to more concerned about the intended portions more than the sneak-ins and reach-arounds.
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:37 PM
 
692 posts, read 3,137,584 times
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Phillip T says,

But where in ANY of this do you get the idea that a Buyer of Gold (or any other product) does or will get 1099'ed? A 1099 is generated by the Buyer (not the seller) and only when it is a declared business expense. What is so hard to grasp about this?




Silverfox says,


This is not about Business Expenses. It is about Precious Metal Dealers and their "Purchases and Sales".
That is there Business, and this new law requires they follow the new rules.
Starting Jan 1,2012 if I go into a Dealer and ask to buy or sell $601 worth of Gold Coins, they will be required to follow the new rules .. Period

It does not say I or anybody else buying or selling Gold to this dealer will be 1099'd
Under the New Rules the Dealer uses the form to report any transactions over $600.


NEW RULES...

Starting Jan. 1, 2012, Form 1099s "will become a means of reporting" to the Internal Revenue Service the purchases of all goods and services by small businesses and self-employed people that exceed $600during a calendar year.
Precious metals such as coins and bullion fall into this category and coin dealers have been among those most rankled by the changeSo every time a member of the public sells more than $600 worth of gold to a dealer, Piret said, the transaction will have to be reported to the government by the buyer.


Section 9006 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act "will amend the Internal Revenue Code to expand the scope of Form 1099". Currently, 1099 forms are used to track and report the miscellaneous income associated with services rendered by independent contractors or self-employed individuals.
So every time a member of the public sells or buys more than $600 worth of gold to a dealer, the transaction will have to be reported to the government by the buyer.

The new legislation works in both directions "to track the buying and selling of gold".

"Essentially, any transaction over $600 will be logged buy the dealer and reported to the IRS".


Whats so hard to grasp about this ??

Just pretend your a Gold Dealer buying and selling Gold every day.
The point is the Government wants to track all of these transactions over $600.
The above rules are what you will have to follow if this law sticks.
It does not say I or anybody else buying or selling Gold to this dealer will be 1099'd

Last edited by silverfox; 08-08-2010 at 08:06 PM..
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