Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The current political agenda is pro-government and anti business, which is ultimately anti-people. Obama is a clueless when it comes to figuring out what to do and how to help small businesses. Credit continues to be dry for them and now he has passed obamacare which will push up their costs even more.
Not being harsh on you . . . but that is pretty much Bradjolena level business reporting.
"GE said they did not like him. Nu-uh, did not. Did, too. . . . "
But let's focus on your two statements of fact in there . . .
1. Credit continues to be dry for them [them being small-business, i.e., real people]
No disagreement about that. Meanwhile Corporate Banks and Transnational Corporations -- including AIG and GM have had phat .gov bail-outs and are doing fine.
2. . . . . now he has passed obamacare . .. .
No disagreement on that statement of fact, either.
Obamacare has as the core feature that everyone -- especially "little people" MUST buy Corporate Approved Health "Insurance," (sound like a mob protection racket or what?) or be fined or go to jail.
But this is VERY pro-business -- definitely Pro-Corporate Big Medical/Insurance Business and not in the interest of "little people."
Perhaps when it comes to BIG businesses, but IMO medium and small-ones will get hurt even more, which is a shame because they are truly the backbone of employment for people in this country.
This economy isn't going to truly recover until we have someone besides a "community organizer" and labor union sympathizer at the helm
Perhaps when it comes to BIG businesses, but IMO medium and small-ones will get hurt even more, which is a shame because they are truly the backbone of employment for people in this country.
Big Fish Eat Little Fish.
Big Business -- Transnational Corporations -- if left unchecked will destroy and consume all smaller business to build their own kingdom even bigger. Eventually all that would be left would be Big Corp. Kingdoms and their Serfs (or Servants = Employees) bumping up against each other in the overall Corporate Empire, and little to medium (the target of the grab) fully consumed or destroyed.
Many Big Businesses know they have no skills in creation -- that is why they seek to acquire smaller medium to small businesses. Much easier to take a country whole (per Sun Tzu) than to destroy and recreate it.
If you look back at the pattern over the past couple decades, it becomes clear where one can see the .gov bought and paid for influence in this. Banks paying and writing the laws to remove Glass-Stegall. NAFTA. The Insurance/Medical Corporate "Health Insurance."
Quote:
This economy isn't going to truly recover until we have someone besides a "community organizer" and labor union sympathizer at the helm
And another Clueless Idiot Savant (without the Savant portion) like Bush or McCain would have not mattered, either. Both (D = R) Parties are fully bought and paid for the Corporations. If you wish a different outcome -- it will likely be Populist of some form.
And another Clueless Idiot Savant (without the Savant portion) like Bush or McCain would have not mattered, either. Both (D = R) Parties are fully bought and paid for the Corporations. If you wish a different outcome -- it will likely be Populist of some form.
Or someone like Ron Paul. Libertarians detest corporate welfare as much as they detest social welfare.
The underclass is here and all around us-- they just don't know they're the underclass yet. They think they're still middle-class because their credit cards haven't been cut off yet. They cover all age groups and educational levels. But if you're a 29 year-old college graduate who lives with mom and dad because you don't have a job and no reasonable prospects of finding one, then you're part of this new underclass. If you're 55 or 60 and you've been unemployed for three years and you're about to finish off what used to be your 401k, you're in the new underclass.
I'm more than a little tired of smug moralizing by people who think they're ants, lording it over people they think are grasshoppers. Most people didn't save for the last 20 years because they spent and borrowed to maintain the middle-class lifestyle they thought they had earned by virtue of education and dedication to work. Hell, it would have been damn close to unpatriotic NOT to spend-- and the economy is going to continue to suffer because people are finally not spending, and 70% of the economy is consumer spending.
But go ahead and believe that you can John Galt your way to riches, and vote for politicians who will tell you what you want to hear but represent those who bought them, at bargain-basement prices.
I think that the economy has been declining for quite some time, and we have used debt to paper over that fact. Debt is like the figleaf that covers the underclass status and makes it appear middle class.
I think we're you're wrong is in absolving people of responsibility for taking on so much debt to get the lifestyle they 'earned.' If you can't pay for it, you haven't earned it. Where we went wrong is in thinking we deserved things we couldn't pay for.
Nobody should be too moralistic about it because we all, in one way or another, embraced this mentality for a long time. We're paying for it now.
I also disagree that it's unpatriotic not to spend money you don't have. We have to ween ourselves off debt dependency just as an addict has to ween himself off his drug. Consumer spending should be a byproduct of a productive economy, not the driver of the economy. This is especially true when so much of our consumer spending ends up sending more and more of our wealth overseas, while we just get a few crumbs.
As for the original question, I'm going to choose to be optimistic and say that we'll somehow recover from this situation. That isn't to say that all people will necessarily be able to live the lifestyle that they've come to expect. As we've seen, that lifestyle was unaffordable for a long time even before the economy crashed. In fact, people's insistence on living an unaffordable lifestyle largely caused this crash. The people worst off will be the people in their 60s with a big mortgage because they 'cashed out' the equity in their homes and spent the money somehow. They'll have the least time to recover.
I think some people will have to trade down their houses, and that will put downward pressure on the housing market, at least at the middle to upper range. People will have to work longer than they originally anticipated, and their retirements may not involve the level of luxury that they anticipated, with constant traveling, eating out, etc. We as a society can't afford to subsidize 30 years of that, and people who were counting on their home appreciation to pay for that level of luxury will be out of luck.
But I think that in the end, most people will survive OK. We'll find out what we really not, not what we want.
neither of our fathers had college degrees, yet had houses paid for by the time they were50.
There is a real hate in this country for the working class blue collar worker. Funny how this country could run without everyone having a college degree. Now you cant get a job at McDonalds without one.
Hard work used to be rewarded. You could start off on the shop floor and eventually become CEO of the company. Not these days
"there's going to be a new underclass of (former) professional people, mostly over 40, who will never recover financially from being laid off. " Yes, agree and I HATE when people make the assumption that you spent like a sailor and didn't save enough money so that is why you are hurting. this is NOT the case... many people were responsible and saved and tried to pay down their houses and when they get laid off, are laid off for over a year and default on their mortgage. Even if you had six months or a year of savings as a buffer... you would still be in trouble.
Or they have extenuating medical circumstances, your car blows up or has an accident, the price of everything is going up (gas, clothes, food). You canNOT judge their circumstances across the board...
It is pathetic state of things that the new underclass includes those with good college degrees.
"There is a real hate in this country for the working class blue collar worker. " Agreed. If you don't want to work for the wages of a teenager you are worthless. I would say there is a global hatred of the American worker (whatever collar) in general. Obviously the corps will do anything in their power to not hire us.
I think that the economy has been declining for quite some time, and we have used debt to paper over that fact. Debt is like the figleaf that covers the underclass status and makes it appear middle class.
I think we're you're wrong is in absolving people of responsibility for taking on so much debt to get the lifestyle they 'earned.' If you can't pay for it, you haven't earned it. Where we went wrong is in thinking we deserved things we couldn't pay for.
Nobody should be too moralistic about it because we all, in one way or another, embraced this mentality for a long time. We're paying for it now.
I also disagree that it's unpatriotic not to spend money you don't have. We have to ween ourselves off debt dependency just as an addict has to ween himself off his drug. Consumer spending should be a byproduct of a productive economy, not the driver of the economy. This is especially true when so much of our consumer spending ends up sending more and more of our wealth overseas, while we just get a few crumbs.
As for the original question, I'm going to choose to be optimistic and say that we'll somehow recover from this situation. That isn't to say that all people will necessarily be able to live the lifestyle that they've come to expect. As we've seen, that lifestyle was unaffordable for a long time even before the economy crashed. In fact, people's insistence on living an unaffordable lifestyle largely caused this crash. The people worst off will be the people in their 60s with a big mortgage because they 'cashed out' the equity in their homes and spent the money somehow. They'll have the least time to recover.
I think some people will have to trade down their houses, and that will put downward pressure on the housing market, at least at the middle to upper range. People will have to work longer than they originally anticipated, and their retirements may not involve the level of luxury that they anticipated, with constant traveling, eating out, etc. We as a society can't afford to subsidize 30 years of that, and people who were counting on their home appreciation to pay for that level of luxury will be out of luck.
But I think that in the end, most people will survive OK. We'll find out what we really not, not what we want.
I agree with your assessment but I think you underestimate the social impact not getting "what you bargained for" will have on our culture and day to day living going forward. In Britain they call it 'yobism'. Don't think for a second Americans won't turn to that in lieu of working twice as hard to get half the lifestyle their parents were able to enjoy. They'll do it in a heartbeat. This in turn will create a macro social construct where it's no longer that 'cute' to be American. This law and order we sooooo take for granted, will no longer be. People will increasingly bemoan a "riff raffing" of this country, the malls no longer feel so clean, the streets no longer feel that safe, the restaurants no longer feel worth going to and service economy seems like nobody wants to do their job and hates it. This will aggravate as we increasingly " pay the piper" and our standard of living decreases and shows our relative poverty absent credit. Then it won't be so cute to smugly assert that it's equitable to pursue dog-eat-dog 60hr/wk for no retirement and perma-nomad jobs every 7 years for the priviledge of living in America, particularly when other nations (Canada, Brazil) have higher standards of living for the median.
Then yobism will be in full fledge. People won't cough out 20K for a college degree forever, there will be a tipping point. So, educational outlets will also have to downsize. It's a bowl of " eat %hit" for everybody except the capital siphoners in this country.
So yeah let's applaud the lifestyle degrade this country is due, but don't ***** when the streets look like Brazil and you're still working like an American (read, like a mexican but in a cubicle....). There's no free lunch. Now, as Americans we're self-centered, so we default to de-coupling our outlook from that of our neighbor. This is to say, we collectively recognize we're going to hell in a handbasket but we all individually assert to ourselves that our personal circumstances will insulate us from this reality, because we're harder working, or have more degrees, or know somebody, or overestimate our labor field's outlook. We all think we're all gonna be ok even as we recognize our country is doomed to Brazilization. Wake up, you're not that special. We're all a social security number.
"there's going to be a new underclass of (former) professional people, mostly over 40, who will never recover financially from being laid off. " Yes, agree and I HATE when people make the assumption that you spent like a sailor and didn't save enough money so that is why you are hurting.
I totally agree. Sure there are some and those are the ones making the headlines..living high off the hog and just walking away from debt.
But many, many more are just hard working joe's who paid their way through life while saving for retirement. For example..one guy at my job put his three kids through college with no loans all the while still managed to save for retirement. Comes the crash, his retirement is a tad more than half of what it was. He now has to work longer to get that fund built back up.
Life in the US is expensive if you pay your way via cash and have a family.
Most of the ones I see with gadgets are the same complaining about the CC fees and lost HELOCs. Outward appearances of wealth can be very, very deceiving these days.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
