Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Those getting an "average wage" are not outliers, those getting a good or great wage ARE outliers.
The problem is, the "average wage", about 41k, is hardly liveable in most of the country.
Unless you live in Podunck, Alabama, 41k isnt getting you more then a small apartment in a questionable area, with mostly just the basics and very little to no savings.
You're such a whiner. I live in high cost CA and could put money away on 41K. I happen to make more than that, but made quite a bit less for a while. All this whining annoys me to no end. Part of the problem is that Average Joe's all compete with each other to see who can take out the biggest loan for a car, a house, stretch and pay 1/3 of their income toward rent, etc. These behaviors drive up the costs of things. Then they wonder why prices are so high and why they're so stressed out.
When the middle class abandoned the concept of saving, starting around the 1980s, it contributed to its own demise. I'm not saying this is the only factor, but so many people don't even try to look out for themselves.
A $40 K salary is VERY doable in Orlando. The general rule of thumb is that you can afford a house that is 4-5x your salary. With mortgage rates as low as they are now, it's probably even higher than that.
I agreed with you until you got to that last part of your statement. You should NOT buy a house that is 4x or 5x your income, even WITH low interest rates! 3x should be the max with low interest rates. 2.5x should be the max with high rates. The reason we're in the mess we're in is people have lost all perspective in regard to what they can actually afford.
Making 41k, you would need your utilities and rent to come to less then $1000 to even dream of putting away $500 a month.
You want to know how I know that? Because I make a little over 37k, and I put away $400-$500 a month, and my rent and utilities together average about $1000. I dont have cable, I dont eat out, I hardly buy anything I dont need. I dont have an iphone, I do have a cell phone, but its the lowest end package you can get, and I dont have a home phone. Also, I dont have a car payment, or health insurance. I do have cable internet, but the cheapest one you can get. I spend about 500-600 dollars a month on everything else, food/household supplies, car insurance, internet, phone
Id say, a car payment and health insurance could easily eat up most of that $500. Good thing I dont pay anything for either.
Then again, I guess transportation other then your feet and healthcare shouldnt be an expectation of any American citizen.
So you're not doing bad other than the health care issue. It seems like your rent is high for the area where you live. My rent for a studio apt. & utilities in the San Francisco Bay Area comes to less than $900.
Next thing we are going to hear is that Frugal is Fun! Everybody stay home and watch TV or read some religious book. Welcome to Brazil del Norte!
Everyone will not prosper on Mexican Wages. The profits will be concentrated and the workers will be broke. We need to stop wasting money on our Petroleum Empire, unless we start taking the oil instead of paying for it which is why you build an Empire in the first place, and rebuild our own country.
Frugal is not fun for most people. It involves discipline, something Americans are allergic to. The countries addicted to instant gratification tend to have big debt problems 'cause after all, racking up debt is fun! (for a while).
Here is my point. You, and others on this board make a case for someone getting by on 41k, BUT the disclaimers are that they cant have a car payment, if they dont have very good employer sponsored healthcare, they cant have that, they have to sparingly use utilities so that they can get them to half the national average consumption. They have to live in a bad area, a tiny apartment, an area that lacks 41k a year jobs, or the middle of nowhere. They also have little to nothing for entertainment or incidentals. After all of that, they will make just enough to save in a year to cover one huge repair on their car or house.
--Can't have car payment- check (a good idea regardless of your income)
--Emp. sponsored health care- check (This is a true problem for some people and often not their fault)
--Sparing use of utilities - not sure on this one. Several of us have mentioned that we don't go out of our way to conserve.
--Live in bad area -- WRONG in most cases.
--Litte for ent./incidentals-- WRONG. This is where the consumer mentality comes in. Americans are wildly unrealistic about "needing" to spend money for entertainment. This is nutty. People used to know how to just hang out and have fun with each other. It seems that art is now lost. Sad . No wonder there's so much depression out there.
So really, your only truly solid point is the health care one. If you learn to save and pay cash for cars, you'll never fall into the car payment trap.
Poverty is relative, and so is connected happiness. If the average Joe can afford a Disney vacation, and you cant, that ticks you off. It does not matter if you have a can of beans in the cupboard and some Haitian kid doesnt. Relatively, the Haitian family without a pot to **** in, may be doing better then you are.
We are not a "global" melting pot. A person should be able to aspire to have all that his economy can generate for him, not aspire to have what the Chinese economy is generating for the Chinese guy. Being happy that you are not starving is a race to the bottom wrong way to look at things.
I would say you like going to extremes. Psychologists have concluded some of what you are saying here...that a certain amount of happiness comes from having as much of (or more than) the other guy. But it's actually a fairly small amount.
Psychologists also find that people are happier when their basic needs are met (which 41K would do for a single person in all but the most expensive areas) AND when people avoid comparing themseles to others.
All you are going to be able to do on 35k is just get by in most cases. Unless you live in a small town no debt college loans car payment ect. Bigger towns you can make it if you have no debt roommates no car payment ect. Sure I have known people who have saved 400 to 500 a month on on 35k. Which is about what you would bring home on 41k. In most cases if your saving that kind of cash you are letting things go no car insurance health insurance ect. You have to do this to get any real money in savings in the bank. Or you have 3 room mates or someone is giving you a break on the rent. The main point is however wages are heading down for most workers in the US. Yes some people were living above their means. However tons more never made a living wage to start with. It is a race to the bottom in most cases.
I think you've got your proportions wrong. I just don't get how people can't make it on 41K unless they're living in Manahttan. And honestly, I don't get what the big deal is about not having a car payment. On 41K gross, I could easily save $500 a month, and my rent is $850 a month. Of course, when I was making that income, I had roommates, so the rent was a lot lower. I was saving 1/3 of my income and giving 10% away to charity.
Honestly I don't get people .
For her book The Difference, Jean Chatzky hired a company to survey the finances of 5000 people and she found that 69% of Americans were either living payday to payday or were going further in debt (as of 2008).
She also found that most people in the "further in debt" category would still spend money on fun stuff like entertainment, even though they coudn't afford it.
There ARE some legitimate exeptions to the rule. But I'd say that's 20% of the people with financial problems. The other 80% are just not paying attention or are trying to keep up with other peoples' spending.
Yup. I wonder if randomdude has ever been out of the country. I've been to parts of asia and central america where they don't have running water or electricity during all times of the day. He needs to see how good we really have it here.
Actually, even compared with a lot of First World countries, America has it pretty good. The one glaring exception is that health care costs here are ridiculous and we don't have much to show for all that we spend on it.
But for just about every other category, America's cost of living is the same or cheaper compared with other rich countries.
i understand low wages, an invasion of cheap illegal labor supported by the feds and american business.
what i dont understand is america's utter hatred of unions. unions which would have prevented our destruction. was not too long ago we were picking lettuce, its guna happen again.
People just do not seem to get it. Your going to be hard pressed to live off 35k a year. That is around what your going to bring home.
Dude. I get it. I've been that person. To a certain extent, I still am that person. I make about 50K and live in a high cost area. I had roommates until I was 35. I drive a used economy car (runs fine). Now, I get it as far as the unemployment thing goes. And I get it as far as health care goes. But when times are good, people just don't save. Don't say they do, because most don't. As soon as people get a raise in income or a new job, they do something stupid to blow it. They have a kid out of wedlock (40% of kids today are born out of wedlock). Or they quickly upgrade their lifestyles.
Now, this trend of wages being squeezed for the middle class has been a long term trend. I totally get that. However, I still see lots of SUVs being driven around. I see people insisting on needing a 1 Bedroom apartment when a studio will do. The middle class is getting squeezed. But unfortunately, it's reaction to the situation has been the exact opposite of what is necessary. Instead of putting more money away and being more defensive, Americans have tried to borrow to make up for the standard of living they think they should have. That is nutty and actually exacerbates the decline.
I will just never get this I'm 40 years old, have never made more than 50K, and yet have a net worth around 160K (despite horrible returns in the stock market and bad investment choices on my part), and I live in the high cost San Francisco Bay Area. Now, I have had the good fortune of being in stable employment for the past 13.5 years. And my medical premiums are cheap. But honestly, I think I've lived a good life (from a material standpoint). I just don't relate to most of the whining. It just confirms my POV that Americans are weak willed and lack discipline....and THAT is the real reason we're in decline.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. No wonder there's so much depression out there.
. 
