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Old 09-10-2010, 12:40 AM
 
28,815 posts, read 31,490,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
. FU I got mine is a poor rationalization for asking austerity of the younger generation while boomers rationalize their better life timing.
Right on

I work in the public sector and I have to say, in my little corner of the world, the most entitled people are the boomers. The younger foks I work with don't act entitled at all. I can't say this stuff is true across the board ('cause other people whose opinions I trust have said they encounter a lot of entitled young folks)....but I think we have to ask ourselves, if young people act entitled, who taught them those kind of attitudes? Most likely, their Boomer parents.

Last edited by mysticaltyger; 09-10-2010 at 01:15 AM..
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Old 09-10-2010, 12:48 AM
 
28,815 posts, read 31,490,805 times
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Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
How can boomers quit working if they are only earning 1% interest on retirement investments? You can't live on that. Also, there is the real question if social security will be available for boomers. Even if it is, there is a good chance payments will be cut significantly. Retirement is a pipe dream for many boomers now.
The harsh reality is that even at a good rate of return, Boomers, and most others, simply don't save anywhere near enough to have respectable retirement nest eggs. For most people, that means a minimum of 10% of salary for your entire working career.

Heck, 1/2 the work force doesn't even have access to 401ks....and few of these people are going to open IRAs on their own. IRA? What's that? We can thank a culture of immediate gratification and lack of financial education in the schools for that. And surely, government could do something to incentivize small businesses to provide retirement plans. I hate government mandates, but requiring all businesses to provide access to retirement plans is one mandate I could get behind.

People under-save even when it's made easy. They definitely won't save if you make it difficult.

Last edited by mysticaltyger; 09-10-2010 at 01:17 AM..
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Old 09-10-2010, 12:55 AM
 
28,815 posts, read 31,490,805 times
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Originally Posted by collegeguy35 View Post
You can forget an economic miracle. We will be real lucky if we do not default on our debt over the next 20 years. See we may come up with the next big thing in the US. And 2 days later they will send the whole thing overseas. Have workers in India and China do the work for 20% of the cost of the US. If they need workers in the US hire part time temps or contractors no health benefits. It is the way of the future.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. And much of the economic miracle of the 1980s through 2000 was based on running up government, consumer, and business debt. We've hit the wall with debt already.

I'm worried that the US will, indeed, default.
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Old 09-10-2010, 01:10 AM
 
28,815 posts, read 31,490,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danieloneil01 View Post
Why not just replace federal tax and ss tax with a 401k type investment that can't be closed or borrowed against? And have a min % rate people can contribute?

As it is now SS tax doesn't cover anything and federal tax is a waste.
I agree. The hard part, of course, is that today's SS taxes pay for today's retirees. You'd basically have to still charge the SS tax and get rid of the benefits for people paying into the system now. Then you'd have to take another 10% of their pay and put it into a mandatory 401K plan in something resembling a 60% stock/40% bond indexed portfolio, similar to Vanguard Balanced Index (VBAIX).

Good luck trying to do this politically. The system would have to crash before people would accept such a radical change...and it likely will.
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Old 09-10-2010, 01:13 AM
 
28,815 posts, read 31,490,805 times
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Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
I get a smile reading how people expect to be working seniors because they haven't saved enough for a retirement with more than 20-30% of their income.
Yeah, I agree. In most cases, those people are delusional.
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Old 09-10-2010, 01:44 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,410,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Most boomers will not be able to retire, that's a fact. It is ironic though that they lived thru years of the best opportunities to acquire wealth mankind has ever seen.
A lot of this I attribute to blown education.

-They never got serious about money.
-They live too far in the past.
-They don't know, or are confused about their values (should I be rich, or is money evil?).

These kinds of things. I look at my parents friends (in their 50's to 70's), and they've blown *decades*. You'd think by seeing so many ups and downs in the economy over their lifetime, at some point they jump on the bandwagon and buy real estate when its down. Or buy stocks when they're down. Or invest in a business when X happens.

They've had *decades* of possible experience in seeing things happen. Wouldn't that benefit you by the time you're 55 or 72? I think it comes from a closed traditional education (k-12, and college which doesn't emphasis entrepreneurship or investing, or investing in yourself). Plus a closed "outside education", at church or social activities.

Living through all the economic opportunities of the last 50 years and not seeing them, would be like living next to the Pyramids being built, but not seeing them.
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:14 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,651,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post
A lot of this I attribute to blown education.

-They never got serious about money.
-They live too far in the past.
-They don't know, or are confused about their values (should I be rich, or is money evil?).

These kinds of things. I look at my parents friends (in their 50's to 70's), and they've blown *decades*. You'd think by seeing so many ups and downs in the economy over their lifetime, at some point they jump on the bandwagon and buy real estate when its down. Or buy stocks when they're down. Or invest in a business when X happens.

They've had *decades* of possible experience in seeing things happen. Wouldn't that benefit you by the time you're 55 or 72? I think it comes from a closed traditional education (k-12, and college which doesn't emphasis entrepreneurship or investing, or investing in yourself). Plus a closed "outside education", at church or social activities.

Living through all the economic opportunities of the last 50 years and not seeing them, would be like living next to the Pyramids being built, but not seeing them.
It has a lot less to do with their education, than their culture. You are talking about the "me" generation who lived thru the good times and expected them to continue forever. Having never lived thru really tough times, they cannot relate to concepts like self discipline, and self sacrifice.
Unlike their parents who grew up in the depression and knew the consequences of fiscal irresponsibility, the boomers were always rewarded for their lack of responsibility by the growth of the economy and inflationary government policies.
The children growing up today seeing their parents loose their homes and having to deal with the shame and sacrifice brought on by their parent’s lack of discipline will have a different reality about finance. To them the perils of debt will be clear, as they will be the ones tasked with rectifying the problems their parents created.
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:27 AM
 
59,621 posts, read 46,530,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
working them til they are dead saves alota retirement money.
its a grime group of managers that think this stuff up.
But, but, just two posts earlier the evil corporations were laying off thier older employees.

In honesty, working older employees until they are dead probably won't save the company money and I would bet loses them more money. Think about the total costs involved and I think you will see my point. (hint: If I die on the job my survivors will get >1/2million in life insurance, possible workers' comp payments AND since most companies don't even have defined benefit plans anymore still owe me my full retirement benefit. What a deal for them!
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Lincoln County Road or Armageddon
4,346 posts, read 6,110,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
But that's the thing, they are NOT performing well. Nobody is. Let's face it folks. People as a collective attempt 'careers' because they want to coast to the finish, not break their necks in their 50s. We're all rent-seekers, which is why you feel like you don't owe younger workers a spot in the labor market in the first place!

Look, coasting is anthropological. People in their 50s at my workplace are simply too tired to keep up with the young ones. It's a job that requires a certain level of physical fitness, and there is simply no expectation 50-some folks ought to keep up with folks in their 30s. If you get into a vocation with the intention of burning the candle on both ends at the twilight of said career you're either a liar or a fool. If boomers would move on this would all be a non-issue. But they're cooped up in their henhouses, the economy ain't growing, and the younger generation is starving at the bottom just because your "retirement house nestegg" tanked 5 years ago and you're trying to compensate by pulling a "from my cold dead hands" with your chair at work. I don't want to work until 65 just because the person in front of me felt like he needed to because his expectations of life had more of an entitlement taste to it than the supposed entitlement they blame the younger generations of having.

Give up that pension and then maybe millennials will give up the sentiment they should should aspire to the same benefits in retirement. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. FU I got mine is a poor rationalization for asking austerity of the younger generation while boomers rationalize their better life timing.
I have to call baloney. I too work in a very physical trade, am in my mid-fifties and can out work the thirty somethings. A) I'm in better shape than they are B) Most of them are rather stupid.
That being said, after thirty some odd years of killing myself in all types of weather, I'm hanging it up in a few years. I'll become a ward of the state before I do this past fifty eight. So I'll take my measly pension and investments, sell my place for whatever I can get (never made the mistake in thinking that my home was going to be my retirement), get rid of most of my stuff and move to where I should be and continue to live frugally. Maybe get a little job until Medicare kicks in. Maybe grow a little weed (no more drug tests-wooo!). People have retired with a whole lot less than what I have.
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:22 AM
 
59,621 posts, read 46,530,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughnwilliams View Post
I have to call baloney. I too work in a very physical trade, am in my mid-fifties and can out work the thirty somethings. A) I'm in better shape than they are B) Most of them are rather stupid.
That being said, after thirty some odd years of killing myself in all types of weather, I'm hanging it up in a few years. I'll become a ward of the state before I do this past fifty eight. So I'll take my measly pension and investments, sell my place for whatever I can get (never made the mistake in thinking that my home was going to be my retirement), get rid of most of my stuff and move to where I should be and continue to live frugally. Maybe get a little job until Medicare kicks in. Maybe grow a little weed (no more drug tests-wooo!). People have retired with a whole lot less than what I have.
Good for you. My grandpa actively farmed into his 60's and could outwork guys 1/2 his age. Fell asleep in his recliner for a nap at age 80 and never woke up. I hope to have as good a life.
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