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Old 09-01-2010, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,477 posts, read 56,946,315 times
Reputation: 24825

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Treasure kidd -

You are ignorant of the reality of the actual situation. There are a huge number of people out there that have worked for their own education, are and have been employed, did not speculate in housing with excessive mortgages, restricted the number of childern to less than two or usually none, bought used cars with cash, have saved toward retirement and, because of outsourcing and loss of their careers as well as jobs, are still going broke. To say that studying hard and working harder will get you success is just spouting delusion in the most arrogant possible manner.

If I were advising a student in these days I would tell him to study something that the government needs and to get that Federal job and cherish it until they retire. Then they can exercise their entrepreneurial instinct, if any, when they are finally free. I would advise them to stay away from the private sector because it is a snare and a delusion that will steal your knowledge and sap your strength while exploiting your hope and crushing your dreams.
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Old 09-01-2010, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Warwick, RI
4,611 posts, read 5,238,967 times
Reputation: 7352
Quote:
To say that studying hard and working harder will get you success is just spouting delusion in the most arrogant possible manner.
Yes, you are correct. Education and hard work will get you nowhere in this world. Laziness,
ignorance, self-pity, constant self indulgence and a ridiculous sense of entitlement are the traits that will get you ahead, right?

No offense GregW, but the attitude displayed in your comments is exactly the attitude that will keep you where you are forever. Can't hack it in the private sector, get a governement job - settle for mediocrity and incompetence! Yeah, that's great advice to give young people.

Wow. No wonder China is kicking our butts.
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Old 09-01-2010, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
2,674 posts, read 2,854,555 times
Reputation: 4415
Quote:
Originally Posted by treasurekidd View Post
Yes, you are correct. Education and hard work will get you nowhere in this world. Laziness,
ignorance, self-pity, constant self indulgence and a ridiculous sense of entitlement are the traits that will get you ahead, right?

No offense GregW, but the attitude displayed in your comments is exactly the attitude that will keep you where you are forever. Can't hack it in the private sector, get a governement job - settle for mediocrity and incompetence! Yeah, that's great advice to give young people.

Wow. No wonder China is kicking our butts.
You missed the point. GregW was simply being realistic (although it is certainly unfortunate that the US is at this point now).



China has plenty of mediocrity and incompetence as well. The vast majority of college grads in China cannot afford to own a basic 1000 sq ft apartment in their lifetime (the housing cost is 20x their salaries). Housing prices in China have been going up 10% every month. Everything in China is about who you know and personal leverage. There are many rich people in China, but it's rarely a function of hard work, and people realize this at an early age. Doctors in China make barely 20% more than a sweatshop worker, while a well-connected real estate broker (who can get government approval for land sales) can make 1000x times the doctor's salary. People still show up for work because they have no choice as China provides almost no social safety net.

The US used to be one of the few countries in the world where people believed that one can get ahead through sheer hard work. We are fast losing that belief and becoming more like China and Europe.
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Old 09-02-2010, 01:27 AM
 
3,852 posts, read 12,405,168 times
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poor get poorer? REALLY?


YouTube - John Stossel on Lies, Myths and Stupidity - Part 2 of 6
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Old 09-02-2010, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Ohio
23,424 posts, read 17,360,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treasurekidd View Post
Yes, and his followers in the USSR were among the first to collapse.
What followers?

Nowhere in Marxist philosophy does it say to establish a command economy and set prices and dictate exactly how much a particular sector of the economy will produce in a given time frame and then only allocate enough resources for that sector to meet the goal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger
Actually, I think the biggest mistake poor people (and some middle class, too) is having kids out of wedlock. That's something the rich tend to avoid like the plague because they know where it leads to---poverty.
That has little to do with it.

Poor people are poor because they are just plain stoooopid and have no discipline whatsoever.

An intelligent person with common sense and discipline sets up a budget and saves $300 a month for 6 months then purchases a plasma TV on their credit card and then pays off the purchase at the end of the month when the credit card bill arrives.

A poor person acting like a small grabastic 2 year old buys the $1800 TV on his credit card and then pays $20 a month for the rest of life while the 18.9% builds up and then ends up paying $2000 in interest and then has the unmitigated gall to complain that the rich are getting richer.
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:07 AM
 
13,808 posts, read 25,666,085 times
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Using Gates/Microsoft as an example of creating hundreds of thousands of well paying jobs is like using one day of climate data to show that climate change is/is not happening.
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:41 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,796 posts, read 6,937,467 times
Reputation: 5189
While it is true that people have to take responsibility for their own lives and there are plenty of people who deserve their fate, it does not change the fact that the working class is loosing ground in this country and that is negatively impacting the economy. Sure there are people out there who have more invested in tattoos, piercings, and big screen TV's than in their retirement, but there are also hard working people who are suffering from and economy that has concentrated wealth among the top 5% of the population. The poor did not establish the easy credit policies that caused this mess. They were not the ones sponsoring the TV commercials 24hrs a day encouraging home refinancing to pay credit cards and purchase luxuries they were told they deserved. Were they stupid to go along, sure. Is the wealthy class who profited from them equally responsible? Yes. The bottom line is that people cannot spend money they do not have. But the reason they have no money is that the wealthy are taking more than their fair share of the pie.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:55 PM
 
13,808 posts, read 25,666,085 times
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I might be crazy but personally I think the "poor" (true poor) have benefited from our society. They still eat rather well (food stamps), often get free or reduced housing (section 8), get significantly reduced energy bills. They traditionally work under the table for cash, or in illegal trades such as drugs (yes this is a fact, I know a low income landlord).

They still own cell phones, their sneakers are new, and they don't ever save for retirement but still receive SS. Many are on public assistance such as disability.

Visit any ghetto, many folks are NOT at work, nor do they even have a job.

Now, the "poor" term used is generally the lower middle class. It's tough to get ahead when you are making a combined household income of $30k-$70k. Yes it's doable, you will leave in some undesirable places, and drive really old cars, but you will struggle.

In all but the highest COL areas in this country, however, middle and upper middle income folks might feel a squeeze as far as having less money at the end of the month, but they still have a lot of money left over. I know my wife and I have an average of $4k/month after paying bills right now, when just a few years ago our combined income wasn't anywhere near $4k/month (net). Combined with your mortgage, just 3 years of savings will pay off an average house completely. Combined with no other debt you are looking at a cost to live of potentially under $1000/month between two people, maybe $1500 if you want to splurge. The middle and upper middle can use their income to cut their cost of living significantly into the future, where as the lower middle don't really have that ability.

Now, what is happening to the lower, middle and upper middle class jobs? Lower and middle class jobs are disappearing at breakneck speed, the manufacturing base is gone. Those jobs at least paid decent, especially in a lower COL area. Higher paying middle and upper middle class jobs seem to be decreasing in pay in some areas (lawyers I know for one are having trouble making ends meet if they weren't in the top of their class). Less management jobs available because there are less people to manage (they are all working overseas).

The biggest problem for us isn't a money problem, it's a jobs problem. We are all to blame because we want "cheap cheap". I myself went to Harbor Freight recently and bought a bunch of impact sockets, they were 70% less than the Sears "Made in USA" ones. I think if USA produced products were close in cost to foreign goods, we'd have a chance. But for now we will continue to shed jobs and QOL until the foreign countries start to catch up. It is estimated that it could take China 30-50 years to get to where we were in the 2000's as far as standard of living goes.

ETA: Just a thought of a few things that could help us long term. Something like 35% of the oil imported into our country is used for electricity generation. I can't fathom why we aren't (government subsidized) tearing down those power plants and building nukes in their place. This would create a lot of highly skilled, highly paid jobs from construction to engineers, and put a HUGE dent in our trade deficit. We could also construct large scale algae ponds and produce a significant portion of our own oil that way. Again all government subsidized to get the ball rolling. Or maybe not government subsidized, but guaranteed, to reduce risk.
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Old 09-02-2010, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
17,593 posts, read 23,478,749 times
Reputation: 9949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad View Post
"Consumer spending in the U.S. has turned into a tale of two cities in 2010, with an entire segment of consumers splurging confidently on the finer things in life, while another segment, concerned about unemployment and with little or no discretionary income, spends only on bare necessities.

So why is this happening?

It is happening because the rich are getting richer and they have plenty of money to buy stuff and the poor are getting poorer and have less money to spend than ever."

30 Statistics That Prove The Elite Are Getting Richer, The Poor Are Getting Poorer And The Middle Class Is Being Destroyed
With the rich having already stolen 40% of the economy, if you aren't rich now you never will be. They will be taking their money to China and leaving behind a third world america
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Old 09-02-2010, 03:26 PM
 
3,852 posts, read 12,405,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
With the rich having already stolen 40% of the economy, if you aren't rich now you never will be. They will be taking their money to China and leaving behind a third world america
having worked in the accounting business I can tell you for a FACT this is exactly what is happening. Its funny because people go on tv and say stuff like, "let the bush tax cuts expire, they only favor the rich." In reality, the rich don't pay taxes because their money is held offshore in the form of foreign businesses.
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