U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 09-30-2010, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Chciago
721 posts, read 2,786,677 times
Reputation: 498

Advertisements

My healthcare through my work has gone up 19%, my fathers has gone up just under 30%.

Also, in many states insurance companies will no longer write policies for even healthy kids.

Also, many plans for old people that cover the diff between medicare/mediid and actual costs are going away or at the very least those people will no longer be able to see doctors they want to see.

Looks like Obama lied to us, not that I'm surprised whatsoever. Costs went up and will continue to go up and you no longer have a choice to continue seeing your doctor of choice. Also the thing about the kids, libs love doing things and not thinking about the unintended consequences.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-30-2010, 05:32 PM
 
8,819 posts, read 10,563,403 times
Reputation: 11435
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
Health insurance should not be provided by employers. Hurts both the employers and the employees who lose their jobs. Worst system ever devised.
I agree. It's just more incentive for companies to send jobs overseas also. So many countries have healthcare systems that blow ours out of the water. We are really falling behind in this regard. We can learn from what works in those countries and use it here. Eliminating single payer was a huge mistake. I still cannot fathom that people are ok with the fact that medical bills can completely destroy lives and are a leading cause of bankruptcy.

Medical Bills Leading Cause of Bankruptcy, Harvard Study Finds
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 20,084,553 times
Reputation: 15724
I was thinking today how much has changed in one generation.

My dad was the only working member of our household when I was growing up in the 50s-60s. He probably never earned more than$100–$200 at most a week, and he had a decent job. My mom never worked during those years. There were six of us.

We went to doctors (not a lot like kids today, but we went) and to dentists. My parents had their babies on very little income before that, and had good old Blue Cross Blue Shield. They were not plunged into hopeless debt over medical bills! AND my mother stayed the requisite 2 weeks in the hospital following each birth! They were a young couple with modest income and somehow could afford the medical costs.

In subsequent years, we stayed with BCBS. As I said, we went to doctors as necessary and to dentists, all six of us. My parents paid their bills each month and we always had money left over for savings and a summer vacation. Somewhere in there I broke my arm and went to the ER. My older sister had braces on her teeth. My parents, still earning modestly, paid for it all.

We had a couple of families in the neighborhood with children that had serious illnesses (one had MS, another had something else) and it was not apparent that these families were going under due to medical bills.

Now what exactly has happened in one generation?? I'd like to see someone trace the logical development to where we are today, with 53 million uninsured, millions others underinsured and how many more going bankrupt from medical bills?

Where would you put the blame?

Last edited by RiverBird; 09-30-2010 at 06:26 PM..
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 07:23 PM
 
2,592 posts, read 4,870,257 times
Reputation: 1943
I heard on the radio today and supposedly it leaked out that McDonalds is looking at dropping its health care for 30,000 employees.

McDonald's may drop health care: report - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100930/ts_alt_afp/uspoliticshealthcompanymcdonalds - broken link)
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Ohio
22,798 posts, read 15,991,658 times
Reputation: 19288
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamaicabound60565 View Post
Looks like Obama lied to us, not that I'm surprised whatsoever.
Well, of course. It's the way of the liberals. Create a need....then fill it.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 07:43 PM
 
48,508 posts, read 88,644,248 times
Reputation: 18188
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thHour View Post
I agree. It's just more incentive for companies to send jobs overseas also. So many countries have healthcare systems that blow ours out of the water. We are really falling behind in this regard. We can learn from what works in those countries and use it here. Eliminating single payer was a huge mistake. I still cannot fathom that people are ok with the fact that medical bills can completely destroy lives and are a leading cause of bankruptcy.

Medical Bills Leading Cause of Bankruptcy, Harvard Study Finds
Why would it be better for them to pay for everyones. Would it be better for them to compensate at a higher price? Most countries rely on them to fund almost all their cost if they have universal insurance. Single payer is always not funded by the individaula which is likely why their econmies are so close to all of GDP.Its the leading reson that those countries have much higher tacx rates and less productive economies also. That was why i the first G20 meeetings european countries rejected match as a per centagte the Obama stimulus;they couldn't without wrecking their econmies and told him so. How look what they are doing;cuts;cuts;cuts. It dangerpous to live on the edge as greece found out.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 20,084,553 times
Reputation: 15724
Found some info on the Health Crisis timeline from NYT:


1940s: To compete for workers, companies begin to offer health benefits, giving rise to the employer-based system in place today.

President Truman offers national health program plan, proposing a single system that would include all of American society.

Truman's plan is denounced by the American Medical Association (AMA) , and is called a Communist plot by a House subcommittee.

1950s: At the start of the decade, national health care expenditures are 4.5% of the Gross National Product.

1960s: The price of hospital care doubled.

Major medical insurance endorses high-cost medicine.

1970s: American medicine is now seen as in crisis. Nixon puts out plan for national health insurance, rejected by liberals.

1990s: Healtcare costs rise at double the rate of inflation

2010: Healthcare spending reaches 17.3% of GNP.


PBS- Healthcare Crisis: Healthcare Timeline
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Ohio
22,798 posts, read 15,991,658 times
Reputation: 19288
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthStarDelight View Post
As a recent visitor to Ontario this past summer, I got to see firsthand how the residents there appreciate and admire their vaunted universal health care system. If you went down just about any street in Ontario and asked people at random whether they'd be willing to exchange their current system for the US one, 9 out of 10 (yes, it's really 90%) would say NO! to that idea, which is why Canada is in no danger of losing one of their most successful government programs ever enacted.
Then why do Canadians come to the US for health care?

Quote:
May 31, 2010 (Reuters) - Pressured by an aging population and the need to rein in budget deficits, Canada's provinces are taking tough measures to curb healthcare costs, a trend that could erode the principles of the popular state-funded system.
Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model | Reuters

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthStarDelight View Post
What I don't understand is why Americans think so poorly of the Canadian system when the facts (yes, F-A-C-T-S, you know, the actual numbers that show how Canadians are healthier, live longer and enjoy high-quality health care at much lower cost) CLEARLY demonstrate that their system is far superior to the mess we have down here.
Your "F-A-C-T-S" seem to be short of F-A-C-T-S.

Quote:
In 2004, the federal government and the provinces came up with a C$41-billion (US$34.2-billion), 10-year agreement aimed at improving Canada's healthcare system. A major part of this agreement is an attempt to reduce waiting times; a “Wait Times Reduction Fund” has been drafted in order to allow provinces to hire more healthcare professionals, increase their capacity, clear backlogs, and increase ambulatory and community care programs. The provinces are ready to set targets for acceptable wait times and will establish a common set of criteria to gauge wait times across Canada.
Quote:
"The point is to try to encourage Canadians to let go of some of the complacency and some of the attitude that they've had that 'We've got the best system in the world, so therefore we have to accept its shortcomings,'" said Doig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthStarDelight View Post
As a person paying far too much for my own health care, and probably won't be even be able to afford health care coverage as of Jan 1, 2011, I strongly support UHC in the US, even at the expense of the insurance companies. Let 'em die, for all I care, all they do is to suck money out of the system and make life difficult for all of us.
But that is exactly what you wanted, "health insurance." And now that you have it, you don't like it.

Sometimes wanting is more pleasing a thing then having.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthStarDelight View Post
For all of you out there that still have the wool pulled over their eyes, lemme tell you, our health care system sucks out the ying-yang, and it's only gonna get worse. And don't stoop to bashing Obama for making it worse, it's the *)%&# blood-sucking insurance companies and hospital cartels that are making it worse - simply because they can.
And what are you doing about that?

Absolutely nothing. You want to overlay a burdensome bureaucratic system on top of a system that by your own admission is a failure and the end result will be a failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthStarDelight View Post
As a former believer in so-called "capitalism" (which really is a license for highway robbery), I will only support a publicly-run system for our health care system - it needs to be treated as a utility, with absolutely ZERO profit.
I don't think you have even the first clue what capitalism is.

In the first place, if capitalism existed in the health care system, then there would be no hospitals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthStarDelight View Post
There needs to be strict price-control policies in place, as well as mandated provider requirements, i.e., no doctor or hospital can refuse needed treatments, regardless of cost.
Price control policies fail. You cannot cite even one example in the history of the world where price control policies worked.

You can even go back to 284 CE when Emperor Diocletian introduced the Edict of Maximum Prices fixing wages for people and the prices of goods. It was a total failure.


The Law of Supply & Demand is inviolable. Not even god can violate it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthStarDelight View Post
It's high time that Americans to stand up and demand what should be an intrinsic right of ALL people - the right to decent health care regardless of ability to pay.

Please explain in great detail why health care is an "extrinsic right" but food is not an "intrinsic right."


Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthStarDelight View Post
Someday soon, we WILL demand that the government provide universal health care at low cost, and yes, we WILL succeed - as we'll be in the majority, and a very angry majority at that.

Yes, those of us who are enlightened know, since Plato stated more than 2,000 years ago that democracies always fail because people are driven by their own selfish interests.


You do understand that Canada only has 32 Million people, right? And that the US has 300 Million people, right?


Just because Canada can provide some semblance of health care with a huge waiting period to 32 Million people it does not logically follow that a country with 300 Million can do the same.


But then I suppose you believe a catering company with 5 people that can manage to serve 300 people should be able to serve 3 Million people.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthStarDelight View Post
If you don't like it, than move to another country - we don't want you here anymore, and that's the honest truth.

I'm sure many people will in order to avoid living in a 2nd World Country like you will be, unemployed and sharing an apartment with 3 other families just so you can pool what little monetary resources you have to pay for basic cable.

But at least you'll have health care.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Ohio
22,798 posts, read 15,991,658 times
Reputation: 19288
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
Found some info on the Health Crisis timeline from NYT:


1940s: To compete for workers, companies begin to offer health benefits, giving rise to the employer-based system in place today.
That's false.

FDR enacted a Wage & Price Freeze. In order attract good workers and get around FDR's Wage & Price controls, employers began offering benefits like paid vacations, holiday pay and yes, health care benefits.

However, that's misleading because the health care benefits offered were for catastrophic health care coverage. That would be like when you flew through the windshield of your Edsel and had your legs ripped off just above the knees and had to spend 6 months in hospital.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
1960s: The price of hospital care doubled.
Do you know why? I already explained that in great detail on another post.

Thanks to the effect of trickle-down-technology from NASA's Apollo program and from the military's nuclear weapons program, you had a medical technology explosion.

Hospital administrators, who were great doctors but not MBAs bought that very expensive equipment without thinking and then got stuck with it when there was no one to use it, because Americans were healthier than they have been in the history of America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
1970s: American medicine is now seen as in crisis. Nixon puts out plan for national health insurance, rejected by liberals.

1990s: Healtcare costs rise at double the rate of inflation
Leave it to the NYT to omit the very crucial part where the number of "health insurance" companies went from 16 to 860+ in just about 6 years.

Think that might have something to do with it?

Naw, that would actually make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
2010: Healthcare spending reaches 17.3% of GNP.
Please demonstrate in crystal clear detail how any form of a national health care plan will reduce that figure to a reasonable amount (and also define "reasonable amount").
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 20,084,553 times
Reputation: 15724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Leave it to the NYT to omit the very crucial part where the number of "health insurance" companies went from 16 to 860+ in just about 6 years.

And the correlation of this fact with the mess we're in is...?

For all those passionate about the free market's rampant profits, why shouldn't this industry have grown? Seems like a winner, hands down, to me.

They're all madly scrambling now, aren't they, as healthcare costs are soaring out of control and they have to figure out how they're gonna maintain their profits....why not raise premiums and cut coverage? what a novel idea!



Please demonstrate in crystal clear detail how any form of a national health care plan will reduce that figure to a reasonable amount (and also define "reasonable amount").
Please demonstrate first for us in crystal clear detail how any form of a national healthcare plan will not reduced that figure to a reasonable amount.
(You are prone to taking up space refuting people's opinions and references, but darned if I can figure out what your position is on all this.)
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top