Where Are The Jobs? (bankrupt, student loan, small business, wholesale)
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What is the answer???? Is a college education now a sick joke??
"As millions of jobs become obsolete because of technology and millions of other jobs are shipped overseas, our politicians tell us over and over that we can "compete" with anyone and that if we will just go out and get some more education we can make it happen. But those of us who are extremely over-educated know what a fraud that line is. The truth is that there are not nearly enough jobs for all of us no matter how "educated" we are. "
Look buddy here are the facts. The days of, "working" are over. If you are unskilled you are pretty much screwed. Most of the jobs are going to china (ie. factory work, assembly line, manufacturing etc). These jobs are easily trainable so training some Chinese to do it for under 1.00$/hr makes complete sense to the company. Especially since consumers have proven time and time again that they don't really care about where the product is made (see wikipedia entry on the growth of wal-mart). Remember, these manufacturing jobs were the jobs that helped the poor move up into the middle class.
Education in this country is inanely overrated. I call this the education industrial complex. The basic idea is that you go to college, get an "education and you will get a good paying job. It used to be like that but not anymore. College has increasingly increased in price to the point where even if you get a good paying job the increase in income is marginal at best. Student loan debt is now greater than credit card debt. Economists say consumers have a credit card addiction but the true fact of the matter is that consumers have a student loan problem. The student loans are significantly more damaging because you can't bankrupt a student loan. The education myth is mainly perpetuated by teacher's unions and other idiots who haven't looked at the facts. Now I am not saying that education is a waste. If you go to the library and read up on various topics then that will give you gainful skills which is probably the best education you can get. No need to go to college! India is going to dominate the US in terms of skilled labor, mainly because they invested heavily in universities back in the 1950s. There are many, "silicon valleys" in India.
Meanwhile the only good jobs left in this country are either getting dumbed down (made to the point where they can be automated/offshored) or are heavily protected by the government. For example lawyers need to pass the bar exam, accountants need to pass the CPA exam, teachers need teaching credentials, doctors need medical license etc. The only reason these occupations are high paid is because of the barriers of entry: high debt load, difficult exams, and lots of time spent in school.
The only real avenue to making a decent income is to become self-employed or start a business. Right now it is perfect storm for an entrepreneur. Why do I say this? Because for the first time in history a small business can hire the best talent in the world, the small business can easily outsource to anywhere in the world, the small business can locate to low tax jurisdictions, and the small business can be connected to all of the above through the internet. This is the main reason I say don't bother going to college, spend your time working your wal-mart job and invest the rest into your business ideas. Don't bother with college all you'll get is debt and disappointments. If you go to college, good luck getting that 50k/year job and have fun with the student loan payments!
This is what is happening: The business person/entrepreneur is located in the states. That person sets up an offshore company in hong kong, singapore, Gibraltar, panama or any of the other tax havens. Then that person finds a manufacturer in china (if they are in manufacturing) and gets their product made. Those products are made and shipped to the US where wal-mart or some other retailer/wholesaler sells them. If the business is in services then they simply hire employees in the states to carry out that service. If the business is in any intangible product then it is designed and developed in India. The product is then sold over the internet.
Now this may not seem like a bad thing but what you don't see is the fact that pretty much all manufacturing is done overseas, all business support service (administrative, engineering, R&D, accounting etc.) is done overseas and the only real thing left for the states is the salesman, wal-mart stock boy and other low wage occupations.
Here is an eye opener for all of you who don't get it yet:
Labor force of China and India: 1.2 billion
Labor force of United States: 150 million
That means theres 8 workers in China/India for every american worker. Companies are continually pressed to cut costs and increase profits. Companies realize that its very easy to offshore in order to obtain that goal.
Last edited by killer2021; 09-15-2010 at 02:08 AM..
What is the answer???? Is a college education now a sick joke??
"As millions of jobs become obsolete because of technology and millions of other jobs are shipped overseas, our politicians tell us over and over that we can "compete" with anyone and that if we will just go out and get some more education we can make it happen. But those of us who are extremely over-educated know what a fraud that line is. The truth is that there are not nearly enough jobs for all of us no matter how "educated" we are. "
Killer2021, Unfortunately your description of Americas job market is right on and until all the generation of manufacturing workers moves through and out of the system there will be much unemployment and dissension in that job market.Seems the rest of the world has out America'd America and have passed us in just about every area of education and manufacturing.
As a retired Union factory worker with a high school education the chances of me securing a similar high paying position in todays job market is about zero.
Taking note of todays diminished importance of a college degree the wife and i have steered our kids in an educational direction with the most networking potential,several of our friends and family are bigwigs in the governments environmental department so the kids are taking their degrees in environmental science with jobs almost assured once they graduate.
Look buddy here are the facts. The days of, "working" are over. If you are unskilled you are pretty much screwed. Most of the jobs are going to china (ie. factory work, assembly line, manufacturing etc). These jobs are easily trainable so training some Chinese to do it for under 1.00$/hr makes complete sense to the company. Especially since consumers have proven time and time again that they don't really care about where the product is made (see wikipedia entry on the growth of wal-mart). Remember, these manufacturing jobs were the jobs that helped the poor move up into the middle class.
Absolutely. However, not all unskilled labor has moved overseas so to say all unskilled labor is skrewed is not completely accurate. If the location you live in only invested in one type of industry and that industry is now dead or shipped overseas, then you are in a tough spot.
Also, what almost every consumer cares about is getting goods and services for the cheapest price they possible can. This is what allowed the poor to move up. They were able to afford things that they couldn't in the past. Moving certain types of industries overseas has helped us.
Quote:
Education in this country is inanely overrated. I call this the education industrial complex. The basic idea is that you go to college, get an "education and you will get a good paying job. It used to be like that but not anymore. College has increasingly increased in price to the point where even if you get a good paying job the increase in income is marginal at best. Student loan debt is now greater than credit card debt. Economists say consumers have a credit card addiction but the true fact of the matter is that consumers have a student loan problem. The student loans are significantly more damaging because you can't bankrupt a student loan. The education myth is mainly perpetuated by teacher's unions and other idiots who haven't looked at the facts. Now I am not saying that education is a waste. If you go to the library and read up on various topics then that will give you gainful skills which is probably the best education you can get. No need to go to college! India is going to dominate the US in terms of skilled labor, mainly because they invested heavily in universities back in the 1950s. There are many, "silicon valleys" in India.
I also think right again. I did not have a very good education growing up. I caught up in college, knew my strengths, but knew my limitations (lack of education growing up). I chose a career that I knew would not die, that I am very good at and that I knew many would not want if they had better options. I chose the cheapest college, started at the bottom with my employer and now have a full-time job. I have to improve my skills in other areas but the talent to get me there is so much more affordable.
Funny thing is that I do go to the library to learn new skills.
Quote:
Meanwhile the only good jobs left in this country are either getting dumbed down (made to the point where they can be automated/offshored) or are heavily protected by the government. For example lawyers need to pass the bar exam, accountants need to pass the CPA exam, teachers need teaching credentials, doctors need medical license etc. The only reason these occupations are high paid is because of the barriers of entry: high debt load, difficult exams, and lots of time spent in school.
Dumbed down jobs are happening and are not a bad thing. This frees up labor for other areas, the price of goods goes down if other companies want to stay competitive and people can buy the things they want which is good for the economy. Who is designing the systems so that jobs can be dumbed down? That is where some people need to be getting skills and I am sure that prices for these systems can also be competitive.
Quote:
The only real avenue to making a decent income is to become self-employed or start a business. Right now it is perfect storm for an entrepreneur. Why do I say this? Because for the first time in history a small business can hire the best talent in the world, the small business can easily outsource to anywhere in the world, the small business can locate to low tax jurisdictions, and the small business can be connected to all of the above through the internet. This is the main reason I say don't bother going to college, spend your time working your wal-mart job and invest the rest into your business ideas. Don't bother with college all you'll get is debt and disappointments. If you go to college, good luck getting that 50k/year job and have fun with the student loan payments!
I have to agree again. Quite a few work-at-home moms are making a decent salary simply by making things sold in stores. What we discussed was that there is so much talk of cheap labor being used but we don't really see "great deals" in stores. In other words, the savings doesn't seem to be passed on to us the way we would expect. So some women are producing items that are competitive with the stores in malls.
Quote:
This is what is happening: The business person/entrepreneur is located in the states. That person sets up an offshore company in hong kong, singapore, Gibraltar, panama or any of the other tax havens. Then that person finds a manufacturer in china (if they are in manufacturing) and gets their product made. Those products are made and shipped to the US where wal-mart or some other retailer/wholesaler sells them. If the business is in services then they simply hire employees in the states to carry out that service. If the business is in any intangible product then it is designed and developed in India. The product is then sold over the internet.
Now this may not seem like a bad thing but what you don't see is the fact that pretty much all manufacturing is done overseas, all business support service (administrative, engineering, R&D, accounting etc.) is done overseas and the only real thing left for the states is the salesman, wal-mart stock boy and other low wage occupations.
Not accurate. Companies do not always want support overseas. Imports are not a bad thing because we have to be exporting as well. The dollars that were used for pay for the imports have to be returned to the US.
Quote:
Here is an eye opener for all of you who don't get it yet:
Labor force of China and India: 1.2 billion
Labor force of United States: 150 million
That means theres 8 workers in China/India for every american worker. Companies are continually pressed to cut costs and increase profits. Companies realize that its very easy to offshore in order to obtain that goal.
Yes, and American's benefit from this cheap labor. Who is going to buy their products?
What is the answer???? Is a college education now a sick joke??
"As millions of jobs become obsolete because of technology and millions of other jobs are shipped overseas, our politicians tell us over and over that we can "compete" with anyone and that if we will just go out and get some more education we can make it happen. But those of us who are extremely over-educated know what a fraud that line is. The truth is that there are not nearly enough jobs for all of us no matter how "educated" we are. "
I have three friends whose sons went to ivy league colleges. All three are on unemployment and cannot find a job (they never got good jobs to begin with, and they are fairly smart). How prevalent is this, and what does it say about college education these days?
Of the young adults I know including my own kids, the ones that didn't go to college are doing the best, they have basic physical jobs (carpenter, etc) and working hard. I wonder how the desk jobs are doing for people their age.
college degrees are basically the high school diploma of last generation... its the filter now for almost any decent job..
a masters has become the new equal to what a basic college degree was.
the days of un-skilled ,un-degreed high paying jobs like the auto and steel workers had are gone forever.
but the money those with the right skill set can make is amazing.... i know my son with his law degree was hired out of law school for almost 40% more then im making at the end of my career.. im a salesman for a company that requires a high level of technical knowledge in the electrical field in new york city and i have been doing it for over 30 years....
my sons girl friend is an accountant and hired right out of school by a major firm, also offered amazing money..
the jobs are few for the kids today but the pay is very good in a lot of fields if you can land a job.
Last edited by mathjak107; 09-15-2010 at 06:41 AM..
"If you go to the library and read up on various topics then that will give you gainful skills which is probably the best education you can get. No need to go to college!"
NO this is not true, you will need a bachelors on your resume just to get your foot in the door/past the HR filtering software. And if you get a bachelors from a big 10 or a school that has a winning football team - even better ... sad but true.
Every one needs some post-high school training whether it be a college degree, technical certificate or whatever.
My best friend got her degree and went on for her Master's. She graduated with that this past spring and STILL cannot find a job. And she's in a field that you wouldn't think that would happen.
we had 2 back to back recessions so jobs got hit real hard. typically jobs dont appear again for as long as 3-4 years after a deep recession ends historically.
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