Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-23-2010, 11:47 PM
 
2,023 posts, read 5,313,112 times
Reputation: 2004

Advertisements

The GDP numbers are reported higher and then revised lower later on when no one is paying attention just like the unemployment numbers or housing data or consumer confidence or industrial production and much more data which is unbelievable and needs to be stopped. Consumer confidence is being destroyed in the markets as this nonsense goes on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-24-2010, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,165,825 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Authenticity View Post
What makes this "recovery" so odd is that the labor force has not grown enough to participate in raising Potential GDP to a level that even closes the "existing" output gap (Potential GDP being lower than Real GDP in the case of a recession).
There's nothing odd about it really. The GDP is not really a good measure of anything, except the number of times money changes hands.

There are a few alternatives to GDP that more accurately reflect what's happening, but no one wants to use them (especially not the government).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2010, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Kalamalka Lake, B.C.
3,563 posts, read 5,377,574 times
Reputation: 4975
What scares me is that the housing inventory is fourteen months in a non job economy. Almost every American location I've looked at has incredible housing inventory. Four months supply in a good economy is a bad indicator. Then the feds have attached to the health bill restrictions greater than Canada on buying, which is going to guarantee you don't move that inventory. Ouch!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2010, 08:32 AM
 
Location: No man's land
62 posts, read 146,150 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
There's nothing odd about it really. The GDP is not really a good measure of anything, except the number of times money changes hands.
Actually, the velocity of money measures the number of times money changes hands. GDP measures a country's overall economic output. It is the market value of all final goods and services made within the borders of a country in a year.

The longer potential GDP remains below Real GDP the more likely it is that we will have a "double-dip" or "new recession" as Real and Potential GDP do eventually converge, if only for a moment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2010, 09:01 AM
 
8,263 posts, read 12,198,208 times
Reputation: 4801
Could you explain how the velocity of money relates to inflation?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2010, 10:00 AM
 
Location: No man's land
62 posts, read 146,150 times
Reputation: 71
slackjaw, I assume you are asking me, I'm flattered and will try to do my best here.

Inflation, the velocity of money, GDP, and the change in the money supply are all related. Of course you already know that everyone that is paying attention is concerned that, with the Govt printing all of this money, we will find ourselves high inflation in the future.

Inflation has not reared it's ugly head because the velocity of money is very low due to the banks unwillingness to lend in earnest.

I do not have any idea how they could possibly pull this off but, IMO, in order avoid high inflation in the future as a result of all that has been done, [1] the money supply would have to fall, [2] GDP would have to be firmly positive before the banks started lending normally.

I hope this little bit is helpful to all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2010, 10:22 AM
 
8,263 posts, read 12,198,208 times
Reputation: 4801
Thanks, I've seen the term thrown around but never really understood it completely. I'm still a little fuzzy maybe I'll do some googling today.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2010, 10:41 AM
 
Location: No man's land
62 posts, read 146,150 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackjaw View Post
Thanks, I've seen the term thrown around but never really understood it completely. I'm still a little fuzzy maybe I'll do some googling today.
It is a "fuzzy" topic in and of itself.

I was trying not to be too technical but the basic equation is:

Inflation = Change in the growth of the money supply + Change in the velocity of money - change in output growth (GDP)

Then there are other factors such as whether or not the Central Bank has actual control of the money supply..etc. All heavily debated issues that causes the water to muddy quite a bit.

Perhaps the equation will help you understand what I was getting at in my analysis.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2010, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 21,971,957 times
Reputation: 15773
whether or not you like Krugman, here's his views:

"....Now, alert readers will have noticed that none of these arguments abruptly kicks in when the inflation rate goes from +0.1% to -0.1%. Even with low but positive inflation the zero lower bound may be binding; inflation that comes in lower than borrowers expected leaves them with a worse debt burden than they were counting on, even if the inflation is positive; and since relative wages are shifting around all the time, some nominal wages will have to fall even if the overall rate of inflation is a bit above zero. So the argument that deflation is a bad thing is also an argument saying that some economic problems get worse as inflation falls, and that too low an inflation rate may actually be economically damaging. That’s why the fact that inflation, while still positive, is below the Fed’s target is bad news..."

krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/02/why-is-deflation-bad
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2010, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Business ethics is an oxymoron.
2,347 posts, read 3,334,280 times
Reputation: 5382
Wouldn't it be nice to see a few shifts?

Push wages down as far as possible. $3/hr is a fair level for minimum wage.

And then push prices as high as possible: a fair price for oil is $600/bbl, a loaf of bread should be at least $10, gold: $10,000/oz.

Oh a party that only investors can only dream of.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top