U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-30-2010, 07:00 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,669,200 times
Reputation: 5180

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
You seem to have a vested interest in what you believe is the truth. And your posts all have a common theme that the sky is falling and every act being taken is incompetent. There are many sides to this issue and you have chosen only one, believing you have the correct point of view. And how exactly do you know that the information you post is not propaganda?

And you think you need to tell folks the future is dim. Guess what? Everyone has cable TV and an internet connection. But, we cannot see what is right in front of us and we need you to guide us.

And you care about the country, but apparently no one else does. Or we all have our heads in the sand. Not you though. If only you can get us to focus, we will be on the road to recovery. Assuming you are employed, are you a manager of some sort?
Seeing as you see no value in my posts and they cause you so much frustration, feel free to place me on your ignore list so you will not have to read them any more. That is what that feature is there for. As you can see from my reps there are many who do agree with what I am saying, and many more who are gaining knowledge from both sides from the discussions.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-30-2010, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 20,185,027 times
Reputation: 15736
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliveandwellinSA View Post
add this to the mix. If China continues to sell our Treasuries, who will finance us?

U.S. Dollar Is `One Step Nearer' to Crisis as Debt Level Climbs, Yu Says - Bloomberg

The question we all should be asking.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 20,185,027 times
Reputation: 15736
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
Keep in mind that the Bush tax cuts have yet to expire and business is NOT hiring nor is GDP growing enough. So, while I welcome further tax cuts (who doesn't?), I believe they would not have been enough all by themselves. And they would have contributed to more debt, just like they always have.

I also believe that the stimulus spending has had a positive effect, even if that effect has been less than dramatic. I do not necessarily support more spending, but I hope the funds allocated and not yet spent will continue to help retain jobs and assist those in need until some of the systemic excess has worked it's way through the system and some measure of confidence is restored.
I hope the tax cuts are for all classes, not just the upper classes that are supposedly "creating the jobs" for those lower than them.

Just my own opinion, but I do not believe that more spending, bailouts and tax cuts are going to get us out of the hole. It's more complicated than that, and unprecedented. We are looking a inflation (consumables) and deflation (housing) at the same time. What does that scenario mean, on top of a "Recession ended, GDP gain" at the same time as massive job losses that don't seem to end?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 20,185,027 times
Reputation: 15736
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
........and many more who are gaining knowledge from both sides from the discussions.
And I do think that this is the point of forums. I myself have sometimes changed or at least modified, or at the very least started thinking harder about, what I believe to be true.

Bear in mind folks that no one knows what's really going on or what's going to happen in our country, not even the so called experts and academics whose job it is to know.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 20,185,027 times
Reputation: 15736
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
And you think you need to tell folks the future is dim. Guess what? Everyone has cable TV and an internet connection. But, we cannot see what is right in front of us and we need you to guide us.
With all due respect to your points of view (when on topic I think they are a good balance here in the forum), as a former journalist I just have to say be careful about getting your news from mainstream media. When I was in J-school some 25 yrs ago, the media in this country were owned (yup, their viewpoints and their "news") by about 12 "families." That number has been going down steadily. I'll try to find out who really owns the media and the news these days. Some say the liberals, others say the conservatives, but I can assure you that news and news spins (how facts are put into contexts that change their meanings, and how stories are juxtaposed to lessen their impact) in the mainstream media have an agenda so subtly hidden that consumers have no idea who's pulling the strings...
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 54,559,530 times
Reputation: 24744
Aside from the apparent joy some of you expect to experience when our economy, along with most of the world's, collapses into a post speculative heap, I have to wonder what it will all mean for me and my family. I am about to retire with a decent pension and a small investment fund after our home mortgage is paid. What can I expect to happen to the prices of food, fuel and electricity?

On a similar topic suppose the entire system wrote off the CDO's and all countries simply canceled their debt and started over. Would the US, with its abundant natural resources, be able to recover? Would we be able to support our elderly as well as employ our able bodied people producing the essential goods and services we really need? Could we still prosper without all the imported people and products? Would it really matter if we stopped enforcing the oil monopoly with our endless wars? What would such a post economic collapse look and feel like?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 54,559,530 times
Reputation: 24744
NEgirl - I'll bet the news is now owned by a myriad of corporate bureaucrats instead of individuals and families. The Union Leader newspaper in Manchester, NH is no longer a virulently right wing as during the regime of William Lobe. During that time any bad news was the blame of the few Democrats he could find. The man made millions deluding the people of NH but that was both expected and accepted. I found his tripe inedible and refused to play. I still refuse to bother reading his paper’s swill.

I also avoid most television news as well. I could care less is some kid is accidently shot by some gang thug or another broken space heater burns a place down. These tragedies may be devastating to the people directly involved but, IMHO, they are not news. This is not as important as telling me which government bureaucrat was asked to stop an investigation of some representative’s friend or how we are going to invade another country because they threaten international oil pricing.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Backwoods of Maine
7,322 posts, read 9,102,175 times
Reputation: 20155
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Aside from the apparent joy some of you expect to experience when our economy, along with most of the world's, collapses into a post speculative heap, I have to wonder what it will all mean for me and my family. I am about to retire with a decent pension and a small investment fund after our home mortgage is paid. What can I expect to happen to the prices of food, fuel and electricity?


I certainly don't expect to feel any "joy", even if my precious metal investments are rising so fast it makes my head spin. My food and heating costs are also rising so fast it makes my head spin. I have lost equity in my home, as well as the rest of the homeowners here. I worry, too, about how far my pension will go in a few years. So - NO JOY!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
On a similar topic suppose the entire system wrote off the CDO's and all countries simply canceled their debt and started over. Would the US, with its abundant natural resources, be able to recover? Would we be able to support our elderly as well as employ our able bodied people producing the essential goods and services we really need? Could we still prosper without all the imported people and products? Would it really matter if we stopped enforcing the oil monopoly with our endless wars? What would such a post economic collapse look and feel like?
Of course the US - and the rest of the world - will recover. Just not for many more years. We cannot write off the CDO's or CDS's because most are privately owned, and the owners/investors of these instruments do not wish to lose money, which they will, anyway. The debt of the various countries is not equal and thus will never cancel each other out.

What is happening is the destruction of paper money. No way of getting around that, that's what it's all about. The Un-Federal Reserve and the hot-shot bankers wanted their day in the sun, and they blew it. Un-backed paper money is simply debt in disguise. We need to let all the debt out of the system, and get back to a sound currency. The bankers don't want this, and will fight it all the way.

A "post economic collapse" scenario will most likely find all of us living just fine, but with far fewer luxury items, and let's face it, they were bought on credit anyway. Is this the way you really want to live? Debt is slavery! People never were meant to live like kings. Everybody can't be rich. But for the last 30 years, we all had fun pretending we were. It had to end.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 10:12 AM
 
4,727 posts, read 3,800,531 times
Reputation: 14386
Yes the mainstream media is very much under the control of others, mostly due to the fact that corporate PR hacks write the majority of business articles or economic news. Which brings to mind that the charts and graphs that are paraded out for all to see can be likened to the various slight of hand props used by magicians. Data when manipulated can be so comforting to those who are desperate for some good news, and all the back and forth on CD financial forums are proof that there is a great deal of disagreement regarding the current state of affairs in the markets. Most Americans cannot fully understand the myriad of charts and graphs that are supposed to allow some insight to the general direction of things financial and therefor can't make rational decisions themselves in regard to their own finances. Do we spend, hold back, invest, or cash out? Where are we to get the real info that might help us to make these decisions?

Economics isn't really the exacting science that economists would have us believe, it isn't as though the economy has gears and belts, motors and controls, it's simply "modeled" as a composite of data and subsequent projections, that's it. Now if the econs want to get creative they can do so by adding a twist of optimism or a dash of pessimism into the model and presto, the data now supports their contentions either way. Jim Hightower, the humorist political observer used to say that the average American worker wants the stats from the "Doug Jones" index which includes the price of beater cars down at the corner lot. We may laugh at this but it's probably closer to the truth of the failed utility of the Dow Jones in the every day life of the average American. Most of the arguing herein is the result of misinformation, who's info is correct? That depends on the source of course. This does show one thing though; the more confused and ignorant the average American is the easier it becomes to steer them to a view that allows more of the same treatment they've gotten from those who control their information.

One troubling aspect of this and other forums that deal with the more pressing issues of our day is the persistent posting of linked web/TV/newspaper articles that supposedly are to be discussed by those coming to the forum thread, very seldom do we see an original statement dealing with these issues from the posters own observations. This leads to more arguing about information source, and understandably so. In the age of information overload we've got to be vigilant in our attempts to be informed, blogs and other web based content can be especially tricky stuff to navigate around so it pays to read the more substantial observations of those more well known and experienced political observers. Is the worst of our financial crises yet to come? Are we hurting now? We know that America is a huge economic presence in the world and that our financial woes reverberate far beyond our borders, and that such a huge construct is not easily gauged, these things we know. The future we can't adequately predict, but we can read, we can listen, we can discuss, and through those endeavors we may just find some common ground with a view towards some resolution of our problems and perhaps by doing so we can affect that future.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 10:39 AM
 
48,508 posts, read 89,116,843 times
Reputation: 18195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burb View Post
Actually I believe the opposite is true. The fact that we are a hard headed people unwilling to save and wait for our goods and services ensures the machine will churn on. Our economy is built on consumer credit and our voracious appetite to consume. If that were to change then our economy would really be in trouble.
The problem was that much of that consumption was on credit ;which basically is unsustainable as we saw. people can only rob peter to pay paul for so long in the credit beyond capibility of paying for it con game they paly o themselves. Once you satrtto con yourslef ;your in real trouble.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:29 PM.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top