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Old 10-05-2010, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Business ethics is an oxymoron.
2,175 posts, read 2,636,016 times
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If investing in them puts some dividend cash in my pocket, I'll believe anything they say.
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,661 posts, read 78,919,314 times
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Six corporations now. So, Big Brother is Sextuplets. And Fratricidally inclined.

Remember, in "1984", the only thing the people knew about Big Brother, was that he appeared on a TV screen in every home every day. There was no off-switch. Today, it doesn't matter, because everyone swallows what Big Brother says, uncritically, and could turn it off, but they don't.
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Old 10-05-2010, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
20,408 posts, read 24,037,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70Ford View Post
I haven't watched TV ....for almost a decade now.
I never watch TV, particularly televised news.

I read lots of history, lots of biographies, just finished Mussolin, Stalin, Hitler and Churchill.

Know your history, cut the cable, and you'll know what's coming next.

Another Hitler is on the way, this very minute!
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:31 AM
 
4,767 posts, read 3,280,711 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
Products are created with profit in mind...


...Media not only creates the content for the ignorant, it makes people ignorant...

Personal responsibility? What would you have done about the wars and financial crises had you known at the appropriate time what is going on? Are your kids eating the foods now that will have them "obese" with chronic health problems by the time they're in their 40s? Who is teaching them anything about anything that may be good for them?

As the line goes in one of those famous musicals...."You have to be carefully taught...." [to be stupid and ignorant]
The world was full of ignorant people before the advent of mass media or even the first written media. There isn't a person alive in America who is unaware of the effects of a lousy diet. Yet, the fast food empires thrive. They have made their choices.

Any person can turn off the TV and read a book at any time. They choose not to.

Yes, personal responsibility! To answer your questions: I taught my kid about good healthy foods. I taught my kid the value of reading. I taught my kid about many things that a child his age would normally not be aware of. He has a GPA of 4.3 (yes, out of 4!) due to a full load of honors and advanced placement course work. He sought out on his own such books as The Jungle, Animal Farm, The Communist Manifesto, 1984. He has a job and takes guitar lessons. And, as you know, is the managing editor of his high school newspaper. He was just voted Homecoming King of the Junior class, so apparently he is well liked too. He prefers water to soda and prefers seafood to fast food. He hits the gym twice a week. He has always had complete freedom to explore TV, the internet and the public library too.

I rarely get my life's lessons from musical theater.
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Old 10-06-2010, 10:24 AM
 
60,086 posts, read 46,768,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
Products are created with profit in mind. No one has ever originally said give me a million-calorie triple Mac with soda loaded with HFC, please! These products are created and hyped in the media, their manufacturers paying enormous money to get the message across overtly and subtly that these products taste delicious. People, on the run, remember the ad and you know the rest. Really, really sad for children and teens who are consuming these products b/c that is all that is advrtised in the mainstream media.

And then they want more, and the manufacturers are only ready and willing to comply, reducing their costs by putting in fillers and additives concocted to make you want more and more. These are the advertisers that give the media their big bucks (you didn't think your 50 cents for the newspaper is what makes them rich?)

Media not only creates the content for the ignorant, it makes people ignorant. All while the runup to the current wars was in progress behind the scenes, what was the American public glued to the TV for? OJ Simpson and Monica Lewinsky! That rubbish was center stage while the powers that be were laying the stage for major death and destruction in two "wars." Did people know this or believe this? Of course not. It wasn't in the news. And don't even start thinking about the unreal profits those advertisers pushing drugs and big Macs made during those thousands of commercials.

So suddenly years later people scratch their heads and say Huh? How did we get into these wars and this huge financial mess overnight?

Personal responsibility? What would you have done about the wars and financial crises had you known at the appropriate time what is going on? Are your kids eating the foods now that will have them "obese" with chronic health problems by the time they're in their 40s? Who is teaching them anything about anything that may be good for them?

As the line goes in one of those famous musicals...."You have to be carefully taught...." [to be stupid and ignorant]
I saw a gal eat 5 mcdoubles the other day. That's about 2k calories...1/2 from fat. She was about 5'2 and 300lbs. I'm pretty sure that if you asked her if those were healthy she'd say no....but they taste better than cooking your own meal or healthy option.

Point being that most everyone knows these things....they just don't care.

Heck, look at credit card debt. Pretty much anyone with a functioning IQ knows that it's bad news....yet many become ensnared.

So yeah, it IS about personal responsibility and these issues have been around since the dawn of time.
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Old 10-06-2010, 11:55 AM
 
2,726 posts, read 4,773,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
Products are created with profit in mind. No one has ever originally said give me a million-calorie triple Mac with soda loaded with HFC, please! These products are created and hyped in the media, their manufacturers paying enormous money to get the message across overtly and subtly that these products taste delicious. People, on the run, remember the ad and you know the rest. Really, really sad for children and teens who are consuming these products b/c that is all that is advrtised in the mainstream media.

And then they want more, and the manufacturers are only ready and willing to comply, reducing their costs by putting in fillers and additives concocted to make you want more and more. These are the advertisers that give the media their big bucks (you didn't think your 50 cents for the newspaper is what makes them rich?)

Media not only creates the content for the ignorant, it makes people ignorant. All while the runup to the current wars was in progress behind the scenes, what was the American public glued to the TV for? OJ Simpson and Monica Lewinsky! That rubbish was center stage while the powers that be were laying the stage for major death and destruction in two "wars." Did people know this or believe this? Of course not. It wasn't in the news. And don't even start thinking about the unreal profits those advertisers pushing drugs and big Macs made during those thousands of commercials.

So suddenly years later people scratch their heads and say Huh? How did we get into these wars and this huge financial mess overnight?

Personal responsibility? What would you have done about the wars and financial crises had you known at the appropriate time what is going on? Are your kids eating the foods now that will have them "obese" with chronic health problems by the time they're in their 40s? Who is teaching them anything about anything that may be good for them?

As the line goes in one of those famous musicals...."You have to be carefully taught...." [to be stupid and ignorant]
Are people out there to rip you off? Yes. But some do not see it that way. What they are taking advantage of is your ignorance. They see it as you not asking the right questions.

A lady wanted to start a business with me, any kind of business and then threw out an idea. When I started asking basic questions about why anybody would use her service when they could do it themselves for free, it came down to this: People are ignorant. That is why.

However, she didn't see this as "ripping off" because she was providing a "service".

I am currently visiting many preschools and it shocks me that many expect me to just hand over my money and daughter because their business says "preschool." Yet, many parents do just that. Some claim "the world is not fair and Jr. has to learn early." I don't agree with this. By going from preschool to preschool, asking questions, observing, interacting, my daughter is watching and listening to me interact with the public. Hopefully, she learns to question, observe and interact with the public not because life is scary and unfair. She would to this because only then would she know who she is dealing with.

I believe you are on the right track about personal responsibility.
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 20,163,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
The world was full of ignorant people before the advent of mass media or even the first written media.

Yes, and the world is still full of ignorant people, the media hasn't helped much especially with its interest-driven "news."

There isn't a person alive in America who is unaware of the effects of a lousy diet.

I beg to differ, many are sadly unaware and/or they don't care and/or they can't afford the pricier decent foods.


Any person can turn off the TV and read a book at any time. They choose not to.

They can indeed, but I miss your point here.

Yes, personal responsibility! To answer your questions: I taught my kid about good healthy foods. I taught my kid the value of reading. I taught my kid about many things that a child his age would normally not be aware of. He has a GPA of 4.3 (yes, out of 4!) due to a full load of honors and advanced placement course work. He sought out on his own such books as The Jungle, Animal Farm, The Communist Manifesto, 1984. He has a job and takes guitar lessons. And, as you know, is the managing editor of his high school newspaper. He was just voted Homecoming King of the Junior class, so apparently he is well liked too. He prefers water to soda and prefers seafood to fast food. He hits the gym twice a week. He has always had complete freedom to explore TV, the internet and the public library too.

It's wonderful your son has a great, caring dad. If only all dads were like you! But I had a dad who did none of these things for me, never read me a book, never looked at my homework, never inquired about school, did not encourage me to join or achieve anything, and did not pay one dime for my college. He did not earn much and taught me zero about money. I did it all myself on practically no money, working at a hospital the night shift to put myself through college. I graduated summa ***-laude and kappa tau alpha, and was accepted at Yale but could not afford to go. So what does this say about personal responsibility? Not everyone with my background had my drive. Not everyone who has a great dad turns out well. So, not sure your point here (?)

I rarely get my life's lessons from musical theater.

The arts are one of the finest sources an educated and culturally aware person learns from. Not all theater pieces are ditz and glitz. I assume you know the stories and lessons of MacBeth and Othello. Life lessons are not only made through money.
Posted in green.
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:36 AM
 
4,767 posts, read 3,280,711 times
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My point was this: if parents took the time to teach everything they could to their children from the very earliest age, they would be better prepared to face a world of conflicting messages and predatory practices. Secondly, any person at any time can choose to watch History Channel vs. Jerry Springer or even read a book of their choosing. Or watch Fox News vs. reading US News and World Report. Or go to a theatrical production vs. playing Grand Theft Auto. If they choose Jerry Springer, Fox News & Grand Theft Auto they will reap what they sow.

Of course, corporate interests will attempt to prey on people to enhance revenues. The dumbest among us know this. And political parties will tell lies and one-sided stories to lure in voters. Again, who does not know this? Tell them what they want to hear! The personal responsibility comes into play when you decide to do the right thing versus the easy thing. Everyone knows that a bowl of Cheerios is both less expensive and healthier than an Egg McMuffin. Everyone knows that politicians lie and advertisers want your money. Lack of personal responsibility is when you cave in and then blame the advertiser or politician, rather than admitting that you are the one who made the choice.

In ancient times, if you went stumbling around in the woods after dark (bad choice) the saber toothed tiger got you. Now it is more likely you will just get fat and lose your money. Either way it will do you no good to blame the predator, they're just doing what they do best!
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Old 10-07-2010, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 20,163,374 times
Reputation: 15736
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
My point was this: if parents took the time to teach everything they could to their children from the very earliest age, they would be better prepared to face a world of conflicting messages and predatory practices. Secondly, any person at any time can choose to watch History Channel vs. Jerry Springer or even read a book of their choosing. Or watch Fox News vs. reading US News and World Report. Or go to a theatrical production vs. playing Grand Theft Auto. If they choose Jerry Springer, Fox News & Grand Theft Auto they will reap what they sow.
I'm sorry, but if a little kid plunks down in front of a TV she's going to want to watch cartoons, not the history channel.

My Point: If that parent is not "there" for that kid (and how many are, with stressed out single parent households or parents spaced out on one thing or another), that kid in the course of one week is going to be absorbing thousands of overt and subtle messages from the media. Ultimately, parents do not teach kids as much as they want to believe they do. Parents may dote all while the kids are getting their stuff from their peers and they are all getting bombarded with relentless media messages that suggest rather strongly what's cool to eat, wear, do, and say. Kids have a culture of their own and this was made possible by the breakdown of family post-ag culture and with the advent of TV.

When you were growing up (assuming you were born in the last 40 years), didn't you eat fruit loops and didn't you "need" certain kinds of clothes and toys? A parent can push whole wheat sandwiches for lunch (been there, done that x 4) and advise to wear a winter jacket, but bet you a thousand bucks that sandwich is thrown into the bin more times that not while the kid "shares" others' lunches and undoes his shoelaces and ditches his coat. And pity the poor kid these days who is stifled by his parents from being one of the "gang." Becomes rather a loner, gets bullied, and may think of taking his life. This is serious stuff, and any parent today had better clue in to the primary role the Media have in their childrens' lives.

Who owns the Media? Profiteers.
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:05 PM
 
4,767 posts, read 3,280,711 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
...

My Point: If that parent is not "there" for that kid (and how many are, with stressed out single parent households or parents spaced out on one thing or another), that kid in the course of one week is going to be absorbing thousands of overt and subtle messages from the media. Ultimately, parents do not teach kids as much as they want to believe they do. Parents may dote all while the kids are getting their stuff from their peers and they are all getting bombarded with relentless media messages that suggest rather strongly what's cool to eat, wear, do, and say. Kids have a culture of their own and this was made possible by the breakdown of family post-ag culture and with the advent of TV.

When you were growing up (assuming you were born in the last 40 years), didn't you eat fruit loops and didn't you "need" certain kinds of clothes and toys? A parent can push whole wheat sandwiches for lunch (been there, done that x 4) and advise to wear a winter jacket, but bet you a thousand bucks that sandwich is thrown into the bin more times that not while the kid "shares" others' lunches and undoes his shoelaces and ditches his coat. And pity the poor kid these days who is stifled by his parents from being one of the "gang." Becomes rather a loner, gets bullied, and may think of taking his life. This is serious stuff, and any parent today had better clue in to the primary role the Media have in their childrens' lives.

Who owns the Media? Profiteers.
So, if people have children that they cannot properly supervise, educate and prepare for life that is not their fault? Who said it was easy? It requires laying proper groundwork, at the proper time and making huge sacrifices.

My son did not wear his winter coat all the time. So what? At times he ate Count Chocula and Pop Tarts. But, he knew the difference between that and healthy eating! And that is what we are talking about here....personal responsibility! At one time he wanted a piercing. I laughed, he got mad and it never came up again.

Claiming that a child who has properly applied supervision will become a loner, get bullied and think about suicide is a total cop-out! Teen suicide is a real problem, but boundries and supervision are not the problem!

What Puts Teens at Risk for Suicide - HealthyPlace

How is the breakdown of the family, not an issue of personal responsibility? You do a grave disservice to those who have made sacrifices and worked hard to raise their children well, rather than win a popularity contest. And you seriously underestimate other people's ability to comprehend their surroundings. And a child's ability to play on their parent's fears to manipulate them and get what they want.

In fact, the very media you are demonizing regularly disseminates information on how advertisers and mass media are bombarding people with their messages on a daily basis. Any fool with two eyes and two ears is aware this is happening. Again, if they choose to ignore it, they have made a personal choice.

Good debate though!
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