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Old 10-08-2010, 09:57 AM
 
Location: NC
1,225 posts, read 2,193,927 times
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Parents should be responsible for their child's actions. Unfortunately many parents dont care and in a perfect world there would be no problem kids. You definitely cant blame the children.
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Old 10-08-2010, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 20,118,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
So, if people have children that they cannot properly supervise, educate and prepare for life that is not their fault? Who said it was easy? It requires laying proper groundwork, at the proper time and making huge sacrifices.

Of course it's their fault! Not talking about fault, talking about reality--what really happens in today's world, regardless of who is "at fault." Of course it's not easy, never implied that. Finally, you as a parent can lay all the proper groundwork you want. I've seen all the parenting "movements" from the libertarian Dr. Spock to Rudolph Steiner to "wholistic" upbringing, you name it...parents trying to make their kids' lives perfect. I'm old enough to be seeing how many of those kids turned out in htier 20s and 30s. Some great, some not so, but I contend there's little correlation between great parenting and how a kid turns out. It's an instinctive self-responsibility on the part of the KID, not the parents. I've seen many a fine kid (friends of my kids' friends) with really crummy parents coming from some unhappily broken homes who are fine young men and women today. These parents are still screwups and the kids are interestingly nonjudgemental, they love them anyway.


My son did not wear his winter coat all the time. So what? At times he ate Count Chocula and Pop Tarts. But, he knew the difference between that and healthy eating! And that is what we are talking about here....personal responsibility! At one time he wanted a piercing. I laughed, he got mad and it never came up again.

Knowing the difference between junk and good stuff and still eating the crap is not personal responsibility. As for piercing, if he had wanted it, imho he should have gone ahead and got it....and then dealt with the personal responsibility of that choice. In other cultures, age 16-18 is adult. Part of a kid learning is a parent allowing that kid to experiment within safety bounds (medically supervised piercing).

Claiming that a child who has properly applied supervision will become a loner, get bullied and think about suicide is a total cop-out! Teen suicide is a real problem, but boundries and supervision are not the problem!

Your first sentence: I did not say that.
But a word to the wise from an old lady: overly protective parents can stifle a child and make him or her weak. Let a kid get out and experience the world with an eye on him at a safe distance. I have friends whose adult kids are in their early 20s who still fuss over them and act like they're 16. The way to self reliance is...self reliance.


What Puts Teens at Risk for Suicide - HealthyPlace

How is the breakdown of the family, not an issue of personal responsibility? You do a grave disservice to those who have made sacrifices and worked hard to raise their children well, rather than win a popularity contest. And you seriously underestimate other people's ability to comprehend their surroundings. And a child's ability to play on their parent's fears to manipulate them and get what they want.

Of course the breakdown of the family is an issue of personal responsibility! I am not talking about being a liberal parent or that it's OK to be a deadbeat parent! All I'm saying is you can raise your children well but there's no absolute correlation between doing that and raising a successful, drug-free and well adjusted adult. It's a good try, and we all do it, but many very, very good responsible parents are in for a terrible shock when their kid doesn't turn out "quite as expected."

In fact, the very media you are demonizing regularly disseminates information on how advertisers and mass media are bombarding people with their messages on a daily basis. Any fool with two eyes and two ears is aware this is happening. Again, if they choose to ignore it, they have made a personal choice.

When a kid is raised from the cradle on junk food or junk media, that is the "nourishment" that he will always crave, no matter what choices he makes later in life to go the other way. A parent can switch off the TV and put oatmeal in front of their kid instead of fruit loops, but that kid has far more attractive influences in his peers and in the media. And I can tell you that the pressures today that kids face to conform not to their parents wishes but to other influences is enormous. that is why I am an advocate of letting kids make their own choices as much as possible, and THEN teaching them how that choice is positively or negatively affecting them, rather than trying to shield them and creating a plastic bubble around them.

Good debate though!
I'm not sure what we're debating. I guess I'm saying that being a "too good" parent may be just as bad as being a really bad parent. Either way the kid doesn't know who she really is.
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Old 10-09-2010, 06:33 PM
 
28,813 posts, read 31,486,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandviewGloria View Post
As for books, I'm so sick of buying some book supposedly by an independent/renegade/'free-thinker'... only to discover, after wasting a few hours of my life reading, that he/she is just another Marxist, with the same tired and delusional Marxist/Boazian worldview. It's like you cannot cannot get a nonfiction work published, unless you are a Marxist (or a gay-hating 'Christian''Conservative' who does not believe in Evolution....apparently, only Wingnuts, right or left, are allowed to be published, these days).
LOL, I work in a library and notice the same thing.
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Old 10-09-2010, 06:36 PM
 
28,813 posts, read 31,486,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
I do not think it matters at all. In the end, they will give the public what it demands. And that is the real problem.

If no one watched Jerry Springer or CNN or Fox News or Judge Judy or Jersey Shore, those things would not exist. I do not believe that the media creates the content for the ignorant. I believe the ignorant create the demand for the content and it is filled.

Another example: The fast food industry has not created the fat, lazy consumer. The fat lazy consumer has created the fast food industry.

Further, I believe that blaming the media (or fast food industry) for their "product" ruining minds (or bodies) is just another was of absolving individuals of their personal responsibility.
There's some truth to what you're saying. But I think it's a more symbiotic relationship than you're admitting. There are some points of view that are systematically left out of the media.

It's no secret that most TV & print/online media has a left wing bias. Same thing with education.

So, when people don't get the whole story or all points of view, they're less likely to make informed choices and are more likely to just go with the flow. I'm not saying that's ok. But it is the reality of the situation and none of us are completely immune.

Last edited by mysticaltyger; 10-09-2010 at 06:53 PM..
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Old 10-09-2010, 06:44 PM
 
28,813 posts, read 31,486,072 times
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Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
I never watch TV, particularly televised news.

I read lots of history, lots of biographies, just finished Mussolin, Stalin, Hitler and Churchill.

Know your history, cut the cable, and you'll know what's coming next.

Another Hitler is on the way, this very minute!
I don't own a TV and only watch occasionally. I do agree, another Hitler is on the way. I sorta wonder if we don't already have him.

Last edited by mysticaltyger; 10-09-2010 at 06:53 PM..
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Old 10-09-2010, 07:18 PM
 
Location: In The Outland
6,023 posts, read 12,617,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad View Post
The truth is that each of us is deeply influenced by the messages that are constantly being pounded into our heads by the mainstream media. The average American watches 153 hours of television a month."
Not me, I watch a lot more content on my television than that !
However virtually none of it is from commercial TV corporations. I watch movies (mostly Indies) and concerts etc via Netflix or DVD renting and I make liberal use of YouTube
As far as "News" goes, the only news you can truly trust is the news you make yourself !
I basically consider mainstream TV news to be a little too much like gossip or well-spun half truths. They do get it right at times I suppose but I really don't care anymore (high B.P.) and I really don't want to know what's going on in the world anymore. Fishing, hiking and photography and enjoying films and music occupy all of my extra time. (Oh, I forgot my CD Forums participation)
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Old 10-10-2010, 02:53 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,409,895 times
Reputation: 2748
I don't trust a word that comes out of the television box. It's there to entertain, not inform.

Just the other day on yahoo finance (msm), I read about America's most expensive colleges. Sarah Lawrence was top at some stupid rate, $57,000 a year. How often do you read about "The most expensive colleges" (by the msm). Almost everyday! Why? What purpose does it serve?

Something more practical (in this economy), would be the least expensive colleges or universities. Wouldn't that be more practical for the average person out there? Of course it would be. The mainstream media is aimed at the bottom 98% in this country, but it's always pushing the top 1%'s extreme views.

Expensive colleges are promoted by the msm to perpetuate the myth...

1. You have to go to college!
2. You have to be exclusive, or want something exclusive.
3. You can't learn on your own. You need instructors to do it for you.
4. High cost = high value (at least implied).
5. Success is out of your control. You need a college to steer you in the right direction.
Etc, etc.

(And you should pay $40-50 k a year for the privilege. Don't forget it. And it's going up!)

Topics you'll never see covered by the mainstream media (yahoo, msnbc, cnn, any of them).

Learning on your own. Self sufficiency. The library! Technical or vocational schools. Community College (derided as the 13th grade, even though the instruction can be as good as, or better than 4 year schools). Self independence. Foreign education (that can be cheaper or better than our bloated, overpriced schools), etc.
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Old 10-11-2010, 03:06 AM
 
4,661 posts, read 3,251,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
There's some truth to what you're saying. But I think it's a more symbiotic relationship than you're admitting...
I agree entirely. But, that is where sound judgment and well informed views come into play. Still, I agree no one is immune. Everything is shades of gray. I prefer to take the view that I am master of my destiny, whether that is an illusion or not, it allows me to take credit for my successes and failures. No good can come from blaming media, government, corporate America or anyone else, except the false comfort from believing we are not at fault for our shortcomings.

As Fox Mulder said, "The truth is out there!"
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Old 10-11-2010, 03:10 AM
 
4,661 posts, read 3,251,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickers View Post
Not me, I watch a lot more content on my television than that !
However virtually none of it is from commercial TV corporations. I watch movies (mostly Indies) and concerts etc via Netflix or DVD renting and I make liberal use of YouTube
As far as "News" goes, the only news you can truly trust is the news you make yourself !
I basically consider mainstream TV news to be a little too much like gossip or well-spun half truths. They do get it right at times I suppose but I really don't care anymore (high B.P.) and I really don't want to know what's going on in the world anymore. Fishing, hiking and photography and enjoying films and music occupy all of my extra time. (Oh, I forgot my CD Forums participation)
I could not agree more. I mainly watch music on Youtube. Most of the content I peruse on TV has even been stripped of it's commercials. Some is downloaded from Britain, Canada and Australia.
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Old 10-11-2010, 03:14 AM
 
4,661 posts, read 3,251,446 times
Reputation: 2956
Nvm

Last edited by shaker281; 10-11-2010 at 03:39 AM.. Reason: double post
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