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Old 10-13-2010, 03:41 AM
 
4,661 posts, read 3,253,964 times
Reputation: 2958

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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisan View Post
I agree about there being little or no correlation between "good" parenting and a responsible adult. One reason for this is because "good" parenting is not even agreed upon. You really don't know what goes on behind close doors.
Now that is the crux of the matter right there!

A lot of people in the sixties and seventies took a very loose role in parenting their children. Back then, "good parenting" might have been thought of as providing a roof over the kid's head, some clothing and dragging them to church on Sunday. I have observed that a lot of parents from that era believe that when modern parents take a more active role, they are "over parenting". I think they see it as an indictment of the way people did things back then. If they only knew what we were really up to. Sure a lot of kids made it through OK. But, a lot did not!

The world has changed. In the past, parents provided the basics and sent their kids out in the world hoping for the best. Today's parents, many of whom took advantage of all that freedom to massively run amuck, keep a much better eye on things. We know what we did when no one was watching! And some of us are not willing to take the same gamble with our kids.

There are few things in life that are perfectly correlated. But if you build a rapport with your children, treat them with respect and teach them everything you can as early as possible, the odds you will lose them to outside influence is minimized greatly.
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Old 10-13-2010, 04:55 AM
 
4,661 posts, read 3,253,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisan View Post
You just proved my point that you can raise children who will not be manipulated by marketing...
Yeah, I noticed that too. This all started with, who owns the media. Followed by, we are all being manipulated by the media. To which I made the argument, that is not necessarily the case. Then several pages of refutation, ending with my original assertion.
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Old 10-13-2010, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 20,122,601 times
Reputation: 15730
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
In the past, parents provided the basics and sent their kids out in the world hoping for the best. Today's parents, many of whom took advantage of all that freedom to massively run amuck, keep a much better eye on things. We know what we did when no one was watching! And some of us are not willing to take the same gamble with our kids..
You are assuming that a parent who enables his kids to make their own decisions at appropriate ages starting young is not keeping a careful eye out for them, that the parent is "liberal." Once again the point is missed. A parent who is right with that kid every step of the way and monitoring actions and behaviors has a very clear option between allowing a child to make her own decision and overprotecting them by making decisions for them (you will go to soccer, you will take piano lessons, you will eat veggies instead of ice cream, you won't watch any more TV), all the dictates that can suffocate a kid's understanding of how to make decisions for themselves and what the consequences are of each one.

You ate an awful lot of ice cream. Do you want to do that tomorrow? Let's go shopping for some nice clothes and see how nicely you fit into them. Let's stop at the ________ store and see what tastes great for snacks but isn't so fattening. I need to lose weight myself, maybe you can help me....

You watched TV all afternoon. Too bad, you missed a cool chance to...

You watched cartoons all morning? I guess you didn't see the baby whale getting born on the Discovery Channel...that was way cool....

You don't want to do piano anymore? OK, I won't force you. Let me know if there's anything you miss about it, or if there's another instrument you want to try. [and watch a cool concert with the kid and point out the instruments]


You don't want to go to church today? Is there some other religion you're reading about? Let's compare them and see why our family chose this one...Just don't want to go? Why don't we talk about it at the pizza parlor? I bet there's some questions you might have....


No forcing, no judgement, and good watchful parenting can go together. Really.
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Old 10-13-2010, 11:40 PM
 
4,661 posts, read 3,253,964 times
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Forcing? Judgment? Talk about assumptions!

There is more than one way to skin a cat, assuming you like skinned cats. In the end, it is the results that count. Alright, enough for me, this thread needs to die.

I refer you to post #42, ironically the answer to the meaning of Life, The Universe and Everything. As a former journalist, I'm sure you get the reference. Ciao!

Last edited by shaker281; 10-14-2010 at 12:40 AM..
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:43 PM
 
2,726 posts, read 4,762,126 times
Reputation: 1959
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
You are assuming that a parent who enables his kids to make their own decisions at appropriate ages starting young is not keeping a careful eye out for them, that the parent is "liberal." Once again the point is missed. A parent who is right with that kid every step of the way and monitoring actions and behaviors has a very clear option between allowing a child to make her own decision and overprotecting them by making decisions for them (you will go to soccer, you will take piano lessons, you will eat veggies instead of ice cream, you won't watch any more TV), all the dictates that can suffocate a kid's understanding of how to make decisions for themselves and what the consequences are of each one.

You ate an awful lot of ice cream. Do you want to do that tomorrow? Let's go shopping for some nice clothes and see how nicely you fit into them. Let's stop at the ________ store and see what tastes great for snacks but isn't so fattening. I need to lose weight myself, maybe you can help me....

You watched TV all afternoon. Too bad, you missed a cool chance to...

You watched cartoons all morning? I guess you didn't see the baby whale getting born on the Discovery Channel...that was way cool....

You don't want to do piano anymore? OK, I won't force you. Let me know if there's anything you miss about it, or if there's another instrument you want to try. [and watch a cool concert with the kid and point out the instruments]


You don't want to go to church today? Is there some other religion you're reading about? Let's compare them and see why our family chose this one...Just don't want to go? Why don't we talk about it at the pizza parlor? I bet there's some questions you might have....


No forcing, no judgement, and good watchful parenting can go together. Really.
I agree with NewEnglandgirl here.

Right now, my daughter is 1.5 years old and I do let her make choices with encouragement. She wants to go to the park, dad wants to take her, she wants me to join them but I can't go. I tell her, "You go. I stay." and stay in one place. I let her hug me as much as she wants, let her be insistent as much as she wants, nobody judges her behavior (saying things like manipulation, fake crying), nobody tells her to stop being a baby cry and nobody FORCES her.

Also, I don't just strap her in her car seat, pretend that I am going along and quickly make an escape.

ETA: I don't take credit for my daughter's behavior. I am only responsible for my own.
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Old 10-14-2010, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 20,122,601 times
Reputation: 15730
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
Forcing? Judgment? Talk about assumptions!

There is more than one way to skin a cat, assuming you like skinned cats. In the end, it is the results that count. Alright, enough for me, this thread needs to die.

I refer you to post #42, ironically the answer to the meaning of Life, The Universe and Everything. As a former journalist, I'm sure you get the reference. Ciao!
I was not referring to you, so I don't see why you need to take such personal offense.

I was stating that in terms of the media, we cannot shield kids of any age from it and forcing the issue may not have the intended results. Encouraging them to take attractive alternatives to something they want or don't want is, in my experience and observations, a very good way to get them to do something positive all while allowing them in a controlled way to make their own decisions. Process is just as important as outcome.

Sorry, post #42 went right over my head, saw no reference to the meaning of anything. Something to ponder: there are no answers to the meaning of life. You have your answers, your children will undoubtedly have their own, and people all over the world will have their own. Not quite sure what the relevance to this is, though!

Threads don't always die, they kind of mutate...

Buona sera!

(you can now add me to your ignore list)

Last edited by RiverBird; 10-14-2010 at 06:49 PM..
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Old 10-14-2010, 06:47 PM
 
1,113 posts, read 2,041,343 times
Reputation: 839
According to the Reich Wing Nutbags, Greenpeace owns the media.


:/

I didn't realize Rupert M was Greenpeace.
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