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Old 10-21-2010, 12:02 PM
 
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To be honest I also don't see how those pictures support the claim that Japan is a pretty poor country. Yes, they have buildings and apartments like other countries.

I guess we would have to define "poor" first. I'd always taken it to mean having little money or things.
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Old 10-21-2010, 12:27 PM
 
Location: PNW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slackjaw View Post
To be honest I also don't see how those pictures support the claim that Japan is a pretty poor country. Yes, they have buildings and apartments like other countries.

I guess we would have to define "poor" first. I'd always taken it to mean having little money or things.
We have those buildings too, but they're pretty much low-income HUD housing. In Japan, middle class professionals (doctors and engineers) live in those concrete apartment buildings without insulation or central air. Hanging your laundry out the window when it's 100% humidity outside is not a sign of having things or money.

Japan looks and feels like China, without the enthusiasm. They are the country of $10 ramen noodles and $10/mile taxis. Japan's professional class lives pretty similar to its lower classes (maybe that's a good thing for some on this board?).

American professionals (middle managers, doctors, software engineers) live a pretty damn good lifestyle in comparison.
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Old 10-21-2010, 12:44 PM
 
Location: PNW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00 View Post
now, you are further being arrogant by stating america gave me a choice in housing. that was not the point either. the point was that there is nothing wrong with those pics and for you to post them as some indication that they are poor paints you as the one who is spoiled and especially arrogant or biased as well as dishonest, not me. you don't get that.

btw, there are lots of suburbs in america that look like crap or old as well as apartment complexes. actually, many look much worse than that. is america a poor country because of it? lol
You must live in one of them. No one is denying that there's huge income inequality in America and I'm sorry you're on the other end of that stick.

But when a transplant surgeon in Japan (with more education and training than ten of you combined) can't afford any other housing but a 1000 square foot concrete apartment with no insulation and eats $10 ramen everyday, then yes there is something wrong with Japan.

If I am spoiled to think that the Japanese transplant surgeon (a real person, BTW) deserves a little more, then so be it. The US is a far more equitable society for people with the education and drive to work hard. You probably would disagree, but then you're still living in America right now even as you whine and moan.
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Old 10-21-2010, 03:21 PM
 
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How much does this transplant surgeon make it Japan? Some things like drying clothes outside or eating ramen can be as much cultural as what they can afford, my grandma would hang clothes to dry in Hawaii's humidity just because that's how she rolled. Someone visiting an American surgeon living in NYC might be surprised that they live in a smaller apartment than they expected, and be surprised they grab a bagel for breakfast and pizza for lunch.

From this the average salaries of Japanese doctors in 2007 were:

hospital doctor ¥14.1 million
runs clinic ¥25.3 million
works at at clinic stood ¥14.0 million

I'm too lazy to look at 2007 but right now the 14 million = $172k, 25 million = $307k. Given that, it would be interesting to know how much one of those apartments in Japan costs. I'm sure it varies greatly by location like anywhere else in the world. I don't suppose he shared his rent cost with you? Rory00 has lived there maybe he can share some insight.
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Old 10-22-2010, 02:43 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
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I appreciated the pictures by Guineas. Though, to be sure, an independent thinking person with experience should surmise that there are pockets and swathes of wealth and poverty and in-between in every country, we do not all have the time to verify that in person, so, indeed these pictures are appreciated because they confirm such suppositions.

Like rory00, I have means, but I left behind a classic US suburban single-family house, considering it an economic and cultural waste, and live in a relatively small condominium apartment with family, though in a nice part of a desirable coastal city, by lifestyle choice.

Not sure what you two are fighting about.

The general point that I surmise from all this is that while industrialization may bring, at the least, survival for billions, convenience for many and comfort for some - and for a few decades probably more comfort for proportionally more US people than elsewhere, though that period may be coming to an end -, in any case it does not equate to beauty which is measured individually, regardless of industrialization.

Guineas, or any one else, if you have more such pictures from Japan or elsewhere in Asia, please share. Thanks.

Last edited by bale002; 10-22-2010 at 04:10 AM..
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Old 10-22-2010, 07:25 AM
 
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The Chinese countryside (and a lot of the areas around the cities) looks much, much more impoverished than Japan.

It's not uncommon to run across villages or even small towns with no electric grid or sewage treatment systems. If you want power, you have to buy or rent time on a generator, which isn't cheap.
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Old 10-22-2010, 08:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guineas View Post
You must live in one of them. No one is denying that there's huge income inequality in America and I'm sorry you're on the other end of that stick.

But when a transplant surgeon in Japan (with more education and training than ten of you combined) can't afford any other housing but a 1000 square foot concrete apartment with no insulation and eats $10 ramen everyday, then yes there is something wrong with Japan.

If I am spoiled to think that the Japanese transplant surgeon (a real person, BTW) deserves a little more, then so be it. The US is a far more equitable society for people with the education and drive to work hard. You probably would disagree, but then you're still living in America right now even as you whine and moan.
That's because the Japanese government controls his fees... Welcome to Obama Care!!!!
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Old 10-22-2010, 08:55 AM
 
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Here's some more pictures of japan...

Japan Housing - Google Search
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Old 10-22-2010, 09:14 AM
 
871 posts, read 1,512,095 times
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Quote:
You must live in one of them. No one is denying that there's huge income inequality in America and I'm sorry you're on the other end of that stick.

But when a transplant surgeon in Japan (with more education and training than ten of you combined) can't afford any other housing but a 1000 square foot concrete apartment with no insulation and eats $10 ramen everyday, then yes there is something wrong with Japan.

If I am spoiled to think that the Japanese transplant surgeon (a real person, BTW) deserves a little more, then so be it. The US is a far more equitable society for people with the education and drive to work hard. You probably would disagree, but then you're still living in America right now even as you whine and moan.
i think you are using an extreme or exceptional example. i don't know who this surgeon is and why he can't afford an apartment with insulation. as for the size, it's pretty decent size or large at 1000 sq feet. we would have to know more about his situation. as for groceries, i've been grocery shopping there and unless one shops in the most expensive eateries, the grocery prices are pretty good. i got good deals and there are affordable places just as expensive places.

as for me "whining and moaning" as you claim, makes you less credible because you are accusing me of that, dishonestly i might add, simply because i pointed out that your pics don't make sense.


Quote:
I'm too lazy to look at 2007 but right now the 14 million = $172k, 25 million = $307k. Given that, it would be interesting to know how much one of those apartments in Japan costs. I'm sure it varies greatly by location like anywhere else in the world. I don't suppose he shared his rent cost with you? Rory00 has lived there maybe he can share some insight.
It will depend on location but average apartment prices are 50-80,000 yen per month and these have all the modern amenities. they can be lower and higher depending on other factors and area.

Last edited by rory00; 10-22-2010 at 09:29 AM..
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