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Old 11-19-2010, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
8,955 posts, read 18,805,484 times
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Truth is often stranger than fiction..........

" Despite ubiquitous claims to the contrary, the United States does not have a ‚Äúdeficit problem,‚ÄĚ over either the short or the long term. That‚Äôs because a large fiscal deficit is an economic issue, and what we face is a political problem -- a profound disconnect between what Americans expect to receive from the government in services, and what they expect to pay for it in taxes."

Why the Deficit Is Simply Not an Economic Problem Now, or in Future Decades | Economy | AlterNet
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Old 11-19-2010, 09:18 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 27,156,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad View Post
Truth is often stranger than fiction..........

" Despite ubiquitous claims to the contrary, the United States does not have a ‚Äúdeficit problem,‚ÄĚ over either the short or the long term. That‚Äôs because a large fiscal deficit is an economic issue, and what we face is a political problem -- a profound disconnect between what Americans expect to receive from the government in services, and what they expect to pay for it in taxes."

Why the Deficit Is Simply Not an Economic Problem Now, or in Future Decades | Economy | AlterNet
Or put another way (over 200 years ago):

Quote:
A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.

-Alexander Tytler, a Scottish born British attorney
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Old 11-20-2010, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Ohio
22,798 posts, read 16,040,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Or put another way (over 200 years ago):

A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.


-Alexander Tytler, a Scottish born British attorney
He was paraphrasing Plato who said more than 2,500 years ago:

"Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty."


Democracy is a a failure, because people are basically "not good" and worse than that, incredibly selfish. They will always vote in their own selfish interest, and when a crisis arises, they will give up everything for "protection."

Plato liked republican forms of government, but he would be appalled at the US -- criminals can vote, so can high school drop outs, the illiterate, people with average and less than average intelligence, people who don't even understand the purpose and function of the Electoral College, indeed, people who've never read the Constitution and have no understanding of it, people who can't even manage their personal finances, people who rail against the Federal Reserve but can't even draw a simple Supply & Demand Curve, etc.
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Old 11-20-2010, 06:17 PM
 
5,415 posts, read 10,367,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
. . . . he would be appalled at the US -- criminals can vote, so can high school drop outs, the illiterate, people with average and less than average intelligence, people who don't even understand the purpose and function of the Electoral College, indeed, people who've never read the Constitution and have no understanding of it, people who can't even manage their personal finances, people who rail against the Federal Reserve but can't even draw a simple Supply & Demand Curve, etc.
Sure, but that is why we have vote fraud and the Supreme Court to cancel all that out.

Demockery is a beautiful thing.

Sort like any kind of fraud.

It only really works if people really believe in it.
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Old 11-20-2010, 09:46 PM
 
166 posts, read 344,529 times
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California is a prime example of the "takers" outnumbering the "givers".

And sadly, once austerity engulfs California, these rats will scurry into other, healthier states. And begin voting for the most 'generous' leaders, thereby spreading this plague to even the most conservative and fiscally responsible states.

Unless something turns this "instant gratification for votes" tide soon, it's game over for our democracy. The low-brow breeders are churning out offspring at record pace, while responsible citizens are footing the bill.
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Old 11-22-2010, 08:41 AM
 
2,592 posts, read 4,881,667 times
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The government always spends and then tries to find ways to support its on self interests. Most families make their money first and then spend accordingly. The government does everything backwards.
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Old 11-22-2010, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,145 posts, read 20,469,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Plato liked republican forms of government, but he would be appalled at the US -- criminals can vote, so can high school drop outs, the illiterate, people with average and less than average intelligence, people who don't even understand the purpose and function of the Electoral College, indeed, people who've never read the Constitution and have no understanding of it, people who can't even manage their personal finances, people who rail against the Federal Reserve but can't even draw a simple Supply & Demand Curve, etc.
Not to mention women and slaves.

Luckily,we've mostly outgrown Plato's world view.
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:43 AM
 
28,831 posts, read 31,505,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad View Post
Truth is often stranger than fiction..........

" Despite ubiquitous claims to the contrary, the United States does not have a “deficit problem,” over either the short or the long term. That’s because a large fiscal deficit is an economic issue, and what we face is a political problem -- a profound disconnect between what Americans expect to receive from the government in services, and what they expect to pay for it in taxes."

Why the Deficit Is Simply Not an Economic Problem Now, or in Future Decades | Economy | AlterNet

That piece is such a scam. It's the typical liberal mentality that equates more spending with better or improved government.

I will be the first to agree with the author that people do expect too much from the government. But the author puts no fault on the left at all....way too one sided. Liberals are always telling the people who pay the least in taxes that they deserve more and that someone else should pay for it, but the author makes no mention of that.

For all the money we spend on health care, we should have 100% coverage and money left over...but that's not what we have...although I'm sure the author of this article blames all of that on conservatives as well.

The author also likes to point out the US has low taxation and low government spending compared with other developed countries. That's true...but it obscures the trend in most of the developed world of government grabbing an ever larger share of the economy. The other trend being ignored is that debt levels in most developed countries are unsustainable (especially Japan, Germany, the UK, & the US)...Typical cherry picking of facts to suit an agenda.

Last edited by mysticaltyger; 11-23-2010 at 12:57 AM..
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:56 AM
 
28,831 posts, read 31,505,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeavingMA View Post
The government always spends and then tries to find ways to support its on self interests. Most families make their money first and then spend accordingly. The government does everything backwards.

Problem is,most famlies aren't doing that any more. That's why we had the housing bubble. Your average citizen complains about government overspending, yet does it himself/herself.
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Ohio
22,798 posts, read 16,040,697 times
Reputation: 19289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Sure, but that is why we have vote fraud and the Supreme Court to cancel all that out.

Demockery is a beautiful thing.

Sort like any kind of fraud.

It only really works if people really believe in it.
The only form of democracy that ever worked was anarchy. You can look at pre-20th Century African tribal groups in the Niger and Congo river basins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango
Luckily,we've mostly outgrown Plato's world view.
Given your penchant for overthrowing governments and invading countries, it doesn't look that way.
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