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Old 12-18-2010, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,713,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Gas ws $4 before, and it had no real effect on the economy overall.

The real reason is because too much of our wealth is in the hands of people who do not spend it on consumer goods/services, nor do they invest it in economically expansive ways. Let consumers have a share of the wealth, and they will spend it, no matter what the price.

Nobody will spend his wealth establishing a widget factory to employ widget makers, because nobody has enough money to buy widgets. Too much of the wealth is in the hands of a few people who already have a widget, and too little in the hands of those would would like a widget. That is really the bottom line. No discretionary money in the hands of consumers, so no consumption, so no investment in production.

Current economic thinking is that if the money is held back from consumers and diverted to investors, the investors will produce what consumers can't afford to buy, and create an economic dynamic by piling unsellable product on the shelves. Childish thinking.
That is right on the money. Balancing the economy more towards the investor class- which is what we are doing- will NOT increase employment or up payrolls except for people on Wall Street.
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:45 AM
 
30,876 posts, read 36,854,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
For me, it comes from living for most of my adult life in areas where energy production (coal, natural gas, and/or oil) is a major industry. I also have a lot of friends and business colleagues who work in the industry. I've also spent time working in and around both the agriculture and transportation industries. All of that experience makes what I see happening right now all the more terrifying to me. This country is in big trouble when it comes to energy and transportation--to the point that it threatens our national security and survival. And we continue to do all the wrong things and make all the wrong decisions. Bad, really bad.
Just to piggyback on what you're already saying. Almost 1/2 of the US trade deficit is for OIL, not stuff bought from China (which is usually what's mentioned on CD fourms). We've known we're sending tons of money to repressive regimes for a long time, but the American public doesn't give a sh*t as long as they have their SUVs and can live in far flung, sprawling, suburbs.
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:53 AM
 
30,876 posts, read 36,854,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
Gasoline will not go to $4 a gallon. It MAY go to $3 but I doubt it will even stay at the level long. There is less demand for it and more countries like Saudi and Venzuela are pumping it out of the ground as fast as they can. The world is up to its knees in crude.
This is too funny. In California, it almost never goes below $3.

Count on $3 being the low end of normal from now on. Most of the cheap oil has already been drilled. Future oil is going to be more expensive to drill.

It's time for Americans to:

--Ditch the SUVs and embrace energy efficiency in home building and appliances
--embrace more compact development (doesn't have to be Manhattan, but denser than what we've been doing)
--build more bike, walking, & mass transit infrastructure
--Push for greater use of natural gas for home heating & vehicles. It's a fossil fuel, but it burns cleaner and we have abundant supplies here at home.
--Push for more R&D for cost effective and clean alternatives to fossil fuels.

Last edited by mysticaltyger; 12-20-2010 at 03:18 AM..
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Old 12-20-2010, 08:49 AM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,521,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post

--Ditch the SUVs and embrace energy efficiency in home building and appliances
At least ditch the Gasoline or Diesel *only* ones. Many now are coming out flex-fuel, which is at least an acknowledgement of where things are heading (off Gasoline and Diesel, that is).

Yeah on the low energy houses (and commercial buildings). Too bad we side-tracked into the LEED nonsense instead of just going straight for Net Zero energy buildings. And then there is the problem of reworking all the retarded Barbie-Fairy-Castle-McMansions, the now broke Corporate Builder and Bankers foisted on US.

Quote:
--embrace more compact development (doesn't have to be Manhattan, but denser than what we've been doing)
That is somewhat a mantra, but I dunno that it makes that much sense in the long run. No dense pack is long-term self-sustainable. Why make more of it? The assumption is that everyone has to travel daily to work, the mall/store, school, on and on -- but why is that? Has no one in urban planning or business management heard of the internets?

Quote:
--build more bike, walking, & mass transit infrastructure
Way OK on the more bike and walking options.

Quote:
--Push for greater use of natural gas for home heating & vehicles. It's a fossil fuel, but it burns cleaner and we have abundant supplies here at home.
hmmm, come on now. Really? We have (just about) figured we have painted ourselves in a corner with Oil, and now we are supposed to repeat the stupidity with Natural Gas? How Gifted and Talented is that? Not really giving you are hard time with this, I follow it is being "sold," but really.

Natural Gas winds up with the same mess as Oil, but more so. Poisoned ground water, even frac caused earthquakes in some areas, benzene poison in the air, more CO2 in the air, and in the end it runs out and we are in the same mess all over, but deeper.

Why not just give up the failed Corporate Distribution model and instead go for distributed local renewable? Is it really that hard to acknowledge that the top-down model US Corporate Capitalism is a failure and it is (past) time to dump it?

Quote:
--Push for more R&D for cost effective and clean alternatives to fossil fuels.
Pretty much already exists. Just have to haul the existing dead corporate dinosaurs off the road to get it moving.
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