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Rome fell. Many empires have fallen. Some have risen again. The USA has been living high on the hog since we slaughtered the indians. So yes we will falter....we will fall......the question is how far......that remains to be seen. But the crazy thing is we've only been a country technically for a couple hundred years. Many empires lasted 3-4-10 times that long. What's different nowadays is we will not fall as a country. And you see that happening. What I mean is the rich will get richer and the poor poorer while the middle class dissolves into one or the other. America will become a third world country. It actually already is. It's just the wealthiest third world country the planet has ever seen.
I don't think America is a third world country. You can't appreciate the meaning of the expression "Third World Country" until you have been to the poorest parts of South America, Africa, and Asia. The level of poverty is TOTALLY different than what is experienced by poor people in the United States.
I still agree with you opinion that America is a country in decline. We have enormous government debt problems at the state, local and federal level. Our K-12 education system is declining in relation to other countries in terms of global competitiveness. The amount of investment in American business has seriously declined in the past decade and we are not innovating. Our infrastructure is crumbling, the housing market has collapsed, and we lack the inspirational and courageous government leaders to address these and other issues. On top of all this over the next twenty years America will face the greatest demographic changes history.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,761,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer
NOBODY IS DYING TO COME TO AMERICA ANYMORE!!!!!! Many Americans are looking to move abroad actually or staying abroad after having left. I know TONS of people moving to Germany, Japan, Southeast Asia, etc. The America everyone flocked to decades ago is gone. The only people coming here are the rich from other countries after they've pillaged and pilfered their own country. They can afford to live here. But the "give us your poor, your down trodden.." is no longer true because the opportunities have been siphoned off.
America is always the home people want to come to. Sure there are other nice places but they are not "home". When I was in Germany, it was so beautiful and I toyed with the idea of living there after the service but I just found I missed the USA too much. I doubt that few people who leave- except those who move to Canada- will stay gone permanently.
In fact, congratulations SoCalCroozer that entire post that only the rich are coming to America now has got to be the stupidest thing I've read on these forums in a long time, rivaled only by the guy in frugal living forum claiming people should plan to retire overseas because of the coming ice age in North America.
I'll give a nod to the chem trails conspiracy tards too, but overall living here in Arizona hearing someone say nobody wants to come to the U.S. except the wealthy who can afford it takes a suspension of reality that few can reach.
I think the US, the UK, & Japan are also going to face simiar or worse troubles going forward, except no one is going to step in and bail us out.
Then you don't understand the troubles that Ireland, etc are facing. The US, UK and Japan are in an entirely different boat, each of these countries maintains their own currency. The reason that Ireland, etc need bailouts is because they are on the Euro, a currency they don't control.
America created the modern world and ya'll want to jump ship because of a slight downturn? Abandon the most powerful place on the planet for a weaker, more crowded place with less resources? If all you doom and gloomers are right about coming crises, then why wouldn't you want to be in the land that owns the Great Lakes, the savior of the only crisis that would ever matter?
Then you don't understand the troubles that Ireland, etc are facing. The US, UK and Japan are in an entirely different boat, each of these countries maintains their own currency. The reason that Ireland, etc need bailouts is because they are on the Euro, a currency they don't control.
The details may be different, but the end result will be the same. Maybe we'll inflate our way out of our debts, but that's pretty terrible, too.
Excessive debt is excessive debt. There's no easy or pain free way out of it.
America is always the home people want to come to. Sure there are other nice places but they are not "home". When I was in Germany, it was so beautiful and I toyed with the idea of living there after the service but I just found I missed the USA too much. I doubt that few people who leave- except those who move to Canada- will stay gone permanently.
Well, um, yeah...if you were born in the states, this is hardly surprising or earth shattering news.
If you'd be born and raised in Germany, that would most likely be "home" for you.
So don't generalize and say everyone wants to come to the US. People from other high income countries, for the most part, are happy where they are and don't want to come to America.
Younger people from low income countries tend to look for the closest/easiest high income country to emigrate to, which includes, but is not limited to, America.
In my opinion, I think those countries that will thrive in the future will be those who are adept and fleet at adopting/adapting a post-carbon economy.
With Peak Oil upon us (again, in my opinion, from what I've read), those countries with the smartest, most forward-thinking energy policies will be the world leaders in economics, and also, in quality of life.
It's up for discussion as to which countries are the most fleet at this point. But from what I've read, the U.S. is not among the top places.
Why?
I suspect because our politics are too shaped by the Oil, Coal, Nuclear, and traditional utility companies. It's not in their best financial interests to have geo-thermal, wind, solar or hydro generation.
But it's certainly in the best interests of the citizens to have these in the pipeline and ready to employ.
I agree with those who've said that the US isn't going to "Fall" in a sense but the general quality of life will decline. We're still going to be a force on the world stage for a very long time to come just based off our military alone. Politically, we are still relativley stable, even compared to Europe, and that will make us an attractive place for the power players to have holdings when drama occurs in their home ports.
On the back end for Average Joe and Jane American is where the picture darkens. The internet and then real estate bubbles were means of hiding a simple and tragic reality: Middle America simply isn't needed anymore. Most everything John Doe in Iowa can do can be done by Mahtahma Patel in Banglahore. I don't, for the record, begret third world countries trying to improve themselves and compete on the world stage, but for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Now, I don't think all is bad. Eventually, the middle classes of the developed world will become consumers and demand American made products which will help boost the economy. However, in the end, what we define as the American dream will be defined much more conservativley than years past.
The best case scenario is the current imbalances will be restructured with much short term pain but in the long run a clean slate to do things right. The worst is people's greed and emotionalism result in a frayed society becoming more criminal and sociopathic, along with political instablity/radicalism.
Hopefully the classes divide even more to the point where the lower class can no longer even finance SUVs or houses. Let's quit kidding around that some guy in a BS office job should have nice things. He's worthless, completely unskilled and look at what his existence has caused the world. I hate generalizing but I just have no other way of describing how worthless these suits really are.
I say just cut public education entirely since it's worthless anyway and then cut income taxes dramatically. You want your kid educated? Well you should really really have to pay for it. Otherwise, do it yourself or let him/her join the new working class.
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NOBODY IS DYING TO COME TO AMERICA ANYMORE!!!!!! Many Americans are looking to move abroad actually or staying abroad after having left. I know TONS of people moving to Germany, Japan, Southeast Asia, etc. The America everyone flocked to decades ago is gone. The only people coming here are the rich from other countries after they've pillaged and pilfered their own country. They can afford to live here. But the "give us your poor, your down trodden.." is no longer true because the opportunities have been siphoned off.
