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Old 01-22-2011, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
8,954 posts, read 20,673,069 times
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Sometimes before you turn the page it's best to go back to read what you already knew to understand the whole story.

VISION: The Future Is Becoming More Clear -- Abandon Sprawl, Intensify Use of High Speed Rail and Return to Urban Life, Like the US Was in the '20s | Environment | AlterNet

US High Speed Rail Network

US High Speed Rail Association
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:27 PM
 
23,589 posts, read 70,358,767 times
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And sometimes you really need to understand what is going on...

High speed rail is generally an outdated concept. It might have worked in the 1950s and earlier, but few people understand how labor intensive and insecure rail transport was. I can cite case after case of disgruntled rail employees and union sympathizers in the 1800s and early 1900s wrecking trains. In the air, there is nothing around and the average terrorist has to buy a ticket. On the ground, every inch of track is a potential weak point.

Make no mistake, the claims of the high-speed rail folks are NOT all about helping the average commuter. If you examine the plans, they go for high speed transport along tourist corridors, and have the homing ability of lampreys trying to suck the juices out of the big fish, like overfunded government agencies and clueless greenies.

I love rail. I've studied its history intensely. Using high speed rail for general transport instead of individual vehicles is like trading the internet for a high speed telegraph. Don't fall for the hype.
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
8,954 posts, read 20,673,069 times
Reputation: 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
And sometimes you really need to understand what is going on...

High speed rail is generally an outdated concept. It might have worked in the 1950s and earlier, but few people understand how labor intensive and insecure rail transport was. I can cite case after case of disgruntled rail employees and union sympathizers in the 1800s and early 1900s wrecking trains. In the air, there is nothing around and the average terrorist has to buy a ticket. On the ground, every inch of track is a potential weak point.

Make no mistake, the claims of the high-speed rail folks are NOT all about helping the average commuter. If you examine the plans, they go for high speed transport along tourist corridors, and have the homing ability of lampreys trying to suck the juices out of the big fish, like overfunded government agencies and clueless greenies.

I love rail. I've studied its history intensely. Using high speed rail for general transport instead of individual vehicles is like trading the internet for a high speed telegraph. Don't fall for the hype.
I don't agree and am sorry you feel this way.............
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,442,711 times
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High speed rail and commuter rail are 2 different animals.
You cannot achieve the high speed with frequent stops.
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:27 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,816,250 times
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I also think that high spped rial isn't in the offing. It mstly used in coutnries that made it their base of transprotation of humans yearasgo. The US wnet with interstate systems. But with the cost the real future for rail is transport of friehgt which it is much better( cheaper) and efficnet at. It is one form of rail that can pay for itself in the future.Mnay cities seem to want commutor rail really in order to stop the ovemant of inductry from urban to more rural followig their workforce there.Thatwould meaqn that the workforce can be brought inot urban areas. They alos invison people travelig distances like i Japan to work bring in professional who want to live in certain areas to work in others. That would comptete with the workig from home;conferencing becoming more common today. Bascailly they hope to keep and attact industry from lcontinuing the movement and even bring more back into cities.They no longer have many of the advanatges they did like distribtuion and energy that concentrated inductry and therefore workers in urban areas.Wesee that for example at loactions many inductryiesw are now pickig to located new industry or headqaurters because of communication advances. Heck;even remote as off shore is common now days in many professions because of advances.Its no longer the case of build it here because you must and then workers follow.That has benn effectig the niortheast industrial areas foir decades now.
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Old 01-23-2011, 12:22 PM
 
9,846 posts, read 22,668,568 times
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Rail works for bulk shipments. It doesn't work in a modern society for personal transport in most cases.

In Europe with a higher population density and all, it can work transporting people to the south of France or whatever. Here in the USA, with big blobs of population along the east and west coast, I can buy into high speed trains along the coast to get you from philly to NYC for instance rather than taking a plane.

But for general purposes in the USA, it's a pointless boondoggle that we don't have money for.
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Old 01-23-2011, 02:07 PM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
21,097 posts, read 19,694,480 times
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It will never work unless it is cheaper than driving or flying. In order for that to happen, we either have to wait for oil prices to sustain a high level for a very long period of time (unlikely) or we have to raise the gas tax (politically unlikely).

Those who think people will use high speed rail without a rise in gas prices are fooling themselves.
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Old 01-23-2011, 05:14 PM
 
3,128 posts, read 6,530,789 times
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Also who is building, private or public. So they would raise taxes on everyone to benefit the few that will use it?
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Old 01-23-2011, 05:49 PM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
21,097 posts, read 19,694,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWatson13 View Post
Also who is building, private or public. So they would raise taxes on everyone to benefit the few that will use it?
I don't think it matters whether it's public or private. The determination will have to be made that there is some larger public benefit to rail transit, supported with a high gas tax, in order to get people to ride the rails.
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Old 01-23-2011, 05:53 PM
 
Location: NJ
2,210 posts, read 7,024,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
It will never work unless it is cheaper than driving or flying. In order for that to happen, we either have to wait for oil prices to sustain a high level for a very long period of time (unlikely) or we have to raise the gas tax (politically unlikely).
Or we could stop subsidizing the airlines.
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