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Old 01-29-2011, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,068 posts, read 76,151,889 times
Reputation: 27635

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I went looking for a .gov site that had breakdown and found nothing.
The last time any .gov document was linked was from a Zerohedge article and that was sometime mid last year I think.

We only know what we are told.
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:56 PM
 
Location: The North
5,486 posts, read 9,706,507 times
Reputation: 4738
People still believe the banking crisis was just some problem and those who caused it should have paid for it. The economy and all its financial systems are 100% dependent on confidence. The losses we could have seen without TARP are almost beyond calculation. Now it comes out that TARP probably will cost very little and people seem to forget that. If banks don't trust each other, we're screwed. The markets would have followed and the simplest levels of financing businesses would have collapsed. A business which makes millions of dollars, pays millions in taxes and has thousands of workers could have been forced into drastic cutbacks all because they couldn't get modest amounts of financing.

Yet its all still about fat cat bankers and how people want them to suffer.
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Denver
1,788 posts, read 2,121,355 times
Reputation: 1057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willy702 View Post
People still believe the banking crisis was just some problem and those who caused it should have paid for it. The economy and all its financial systems are 100% dependent on confidence. The losses we could have seen without TARP are almost beyond calculation. Now it comes out that TARP probably will cost very little and people seem to forget that. If banks don't trust each other, we're screwed. The markets would have followed and the simplest levels of financing businesses would have collapsed. A business which makes millions of dollars, pays millions in taxes and has thousands of workers could have been forced into drastic cutbacks all because they couldn't get modest amounts of financing.

Yet its all still about fat cat bankers and how people want them to suffer.
I'm not automatically opposed to bailing something out. What I am opposed to is giving yourself gigantihumongous bonuses with public money.

We have been so inculcated with how vitally important executives are, that they could probably dine on their work force and the lame stream media would say....hoo rah.
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:01 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,892 posts, read 7,717,150 times
Reputation: 3042
GM was able to take the loses they incurred as old GM and apply them to the profits of the new GM. This is about a$45 billion gift from the government. It is a lot easier to pay people back when you get free money.
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Old 02-03-2011, 01:43 AM
 
4,173 posts, read 3,122,408 times
Reputation: 2629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willy702 View Post
People still believe the banking crisis was just some problem and those who caused it should have paid for it. The economy and all its financial systems are 100% dependent on confidence. The losses we could have seen without TARP are almost beyond calculation. Now it comes out that TARP probably will cost very little and people seem to forget that. If banks don't trust each other, we're screwed. The markets would have followed and the simplest levels of financing businesses would have collapsed. A business which makes millions of dollars, pays millions in taxes and has thousands of workers could have been forced into drastic cutbacks all because they couldn't get modest amounts of financing.

Yet its all still about fat cat bankers and how people want them to suffer.

I would seem people should be happy that things did not turn out as badly as they might have. But, instead they would rather see the entire economy in shambles than say, "perhaps, I was wrong about something!"

For those who identify with the Republican party, they would be calling "mission accomplished" right now had McCain won in 2008!

For my part, I am still holding my breath and hoping they reign in spending now that the worst is over and begin dealing with the deficit. If Republicans win the WH in 2012, we will get a first hand look at how they deal with debt/deficit reduction and a balanced budget. Their history on this subject is not at all encouraging.
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Old 02-03-2011, 01:45 AM
 
4,173 posts, read 3,122,408 times
Reputation: 2629
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHAdams View Post
I'm not automatically opposed to bailing something out. What I am opposed to is giving yourself gigantihumongous bonuses with public money.

We have been so inculcated with how vitally important executives are, that they could probably dine on their work force and the lame stream media would say....hoo rah.
When they succeed it is all them. When they fail it is the fault of their unions! Either way they get a golden parachute.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:27 AM
 
21,041 posts, read 18,975,246 times
Reputation: 11815
I was watching CNN this morning and they had on a fincancial analyst who was talking about the economy. I liked his synopsis that we have more or less a socialized capitalism and Wall Street. The largest financial players have been bailed out by tax payers dollars and are either doing well or fairly well with a government backed safety net. The rest of the economy is either still sliding or at best treading water. Unemployment, small business, mortgage foreclosures, etc. We have the government manipulating interest rates through the fed, injecting money by the treasury. So either we're still barely hanging on and far from a recovery or we're only temporarily holding off an even bigger financial melt down. But it is interesting wondering if socialist capitalism is actually beneficial or going to be even more economically harmful.
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:11 AM
 
5,359 posts, read 10,249,261 times
Reputation: 4379
A little re-format, if you do not mind . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icy Tea View Post
So either we're:

[A] still barely hanging on and far from a recovery or

[b] only temporarily holding off an even bigger financial melt down.
I would add: [C] All of the above.

Quote:
But it is interesting wondering if socialist capitalism is actually beneficial or going to be even more economically harmful.
Gets really interesting for me when looking at the folks promoting this . . . .

-----------------------------

Greedy: Some of the folks behind this are just interested in scamming for me-and-mine, here-and-now. Such is the extreme downside of trying to harness greed and selfishness for good and gain. Reaganomics Fail. Big Time.

Sincere: The folks who are sincerely doing all this are genuinely "math challenged." There is a Calculus III theorem that more-or-less says all infinite growth system explode. Any infinite growth model, in a resource limited world, is going to hit limits and fail. And following these dumb folks over the cliff will kill you just as dead as if they pushed you.

Happy Thoughts People: When you hit the "light-headed" ignorant, there are some who really think that trying to see the best will somehow create the best. While the they seem to describe themselves as optimists, most seem to think that how they try to see the world will change the world.

-----------------

But all in all a pack of goof-balls and fools all up and down the path. And unfortunately it is that combination of idiots who are running things.

Bad part for the rest of US, we are sort of wedded to them, as if we were married to a drunk, who is driving, and we are all the back seat with the kids.

How's that going to turn out?

We are probably all going to come to understand the proverb -- The Fool's Companion Suffers Harm.
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Old 02-03-2011, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Sverige och USA
702 posts, read 2,857,720 times
Reputation: 418
OK. Just saw an article on cnnmoney. Here's an excerpt...

"On Wednesday, Treasury announced that Fifth Third Bancorp of Cincinnati had fully repaid its outstanding $3.4 billion loan. That means banks have paid the government $243 billion of the original $245 billion in TARP loans.

Not every bank has repaid the government, but Treasury is making a mint off the interest. The department currently estimates that TARP bank loans will ultimately provide a lifetime profit of nearly $20 billion to taxpayers...

But that's just the loans made to banks. Taxpayers are still holding the bag on bailouts for the auto industry and AIG through TARP.

When you factor those loans in, along with the cost of a foreclosure prevention program, taxpayers have only recouped $274 billion out of a total $410 billion. Treasury isn't expecting to make all that money back. It recently estimated a final cost to taxpayers of $48 billion for the entire program.

If you count the millions of common AIG shares still owed to Treasury, which technically exist outside the TARP program, the program cost drops to $28 billion."

Treasury close to profit on TARP bank loans - Feb. 2, 2011
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Old 02-04-2011, 01:31 AM
 
4,173 posts, read 3,122,408 times
Reputation: 2629
Since TARP and the auto bailouts are the biggest bone of contention in all of this, it would seem that all of the outstanding anger would be supplanted by relief that as a country we may have steered ourselves out of a catastrophe. Granted we still have monumental problems to confront (debt, deficits,etc). Tarp may end up costing $28 billion. The auto bailout is at $19 billion and dropping. Combined these programs had the potential to cost $830 billion and may end up costing $48 billion, less than 6% of worst case scenarios.

As far as what food stamps and extended unemployment benefits are costing, how do you put a value on not letting people starve or lose their homes, further adding to the housing crisis?

I would guess that most people posting extremely negative opinions on these subjects are well fed, employed, warm, dry and still able to fund their internet connection while passing judgment on those tasked with actually addressing the problems we face.
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