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Old 02-06-2011, 10:32 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,892 posts, read 7,717,150 times
Reputation: 3042

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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Sadly you're still trying to pigeonhole people rather than addressing the actual issues. I've already heard your rants about how special and non-partisan you think you are, I don't need to hear it again.


Did you already forget what you typed? Its still there, go read it.

Tell me, what improvements would you make to the banking system that existed in 1900 in the US?
Ya, I am the one calling others "Alan", you don't want to put the pigeonhole question to a vote, trust me.

I would do what Jefferson wanted, Lincoln did, Garfield talked about and Kennedy wanted to do. Issue currency debt free directly from the government.
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Old 02-06-2011, 11:50 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 18,096,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
I would do what Jefferson wanted, Lincoln did, Garfield talked about and Kennedy wanted to do. Issue currency debt free directly from the government.
Perhaps you didn't understand the question, what would you do to change the system that existed in the 1900? Or are you just unaware of the fact that the treasury issued currency during this period?

Last edited by user_id; 02-07-2011 at 12:26 AM..
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Old 02-06-2011, 11:58 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,892 posts, read 7,717,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Perhaps you didn't understand the question, what would you do to change the system that existed in the 1900? Or are you just unaware of the fact that the treasury issued currency during this period?
We were on a Gold standard in 1900, I am for debt free, non-gold backed currency directly issued by the treasury, similar to the Greenbacks of the Civil War.
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Old 02-07-2011, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 18,096,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
We were on a Gold standard in 1900, I am for debt free, non-gold backed currency directly issued by the treasury, similar to the Greenbacks of the Civil War.
So now its a non-gold backed and non-debt backed currency. How would a non-gold backed currency issued by the treasury prevent banking panics and financial crisis? In particular, how does such a currency remove systemic risk from the financial system. And sure Greenbacks, maybe congress should have issued them to pay for our current wars? It worked so well back then after all.
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:42 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,892 posts, read 7,717,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
So now its a non-gold backed and non-debt backed currency. How would a non-gold backed currency issued by the treasury prevent banking panics and financial crisis? In particular, how does such a currency remove systemic risk from the financial system. And sure Greenbacks, maybe congress should have issued them to pay for our current wars? It worked so well back then after all.
Nothing can prevent humans from panicking, taking national debt out of the equation or gold price manipulation can solve many other problems making other crisis’ less severe.

If I thought you had one shred of interest learning about this I could give you information but you have a long history on this board.

Greenbacks worked very well, until they were taken out of circulation after Lincoln was killed.
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 18,096,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
Nothing can prevent humans from panicking, taking national debt out of the equation or gold price manipulation can solve many other problems making other crisis’ less severe.

If I thought you had one shred of interest learning about this I could give you information but you have a long history on this board.
I'm not interested in learning about it nor did I ask you to teach it, I already know about it. In terms of the question, so "nothing can prevent humans from panicking, etc". So a non-debt and non-gold currency can't prevent financial crisis, so how does it make it less severe? In addition to an explanation it would be nice to see some actual evidence of the claim as well. Remember, you are claiming that the currency itself is going to solve the problems involved with systemic risk, etc. That is, if we switched to this type of currency we would be able to ignore financial regulations (which you claimed to be just games) and have full liability of financial firms. No FDIC, no SEC, etc.

Also, why exactly would a currency of the form you suggest be more stable than a gold-based currency?
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Old 02-07-2011, 03:04 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,892 posts, read 7,717,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
I'm not interested in learning about it nor did I ask you to teach it, I already know about it. In terms of the question, so "nothing can prevent humans from panicking, etc". So a non-debt and non-gold currency can't prevent financial crisis, so how does it make it less severe? In addition to an explanation it would be nice to see some actual evidence of the claim as well. Remember, you are claiming that the currency itself is going to solve the problems involved with systemic risk, etc. That is, if we switched to this type of currency we would be able to ignore financial regulations (which you claimed to be just games) and have full liability of financial firms. No FDIC, no SEC, etc.

Also, why exactly would a currency of the form you suggest be more stable than a gold-based currency?
I never claimed anything would solve all the problems of risk. Plus I never said I was against all rules, certain things should just not be allowed per corporate charters. Regulations are different, they are usually written by corporate lawyers t benefit corporations.

Gold can fluctuate due to foreign intervention and speculation, a currency issued by the government can be monitored a lot easier.
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Old 02-07-2011, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 18,096,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
I never claimed anything would solve all the problems of risk. Plus I never said I was against all rules, certain things should just not be allowed per corporate charters. Regulations are different, they are usually written by corporate lawyers t benefit corporations.

Okay, so it won't solve the problems so we are back with banking panics and financial crisis. You want full liability for the banks, how do you have that given the sort of systemic risks that exist in the financial system?

Also, the regulations implemented after the depression were not created by "corporate lawyers". Financial companies begged to have the "red tape" removed and they slowly got their way over the last 20~30 years. Its amazing how consistently a new financial crisis would form the minute they reduced regulations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
Gold can fluctuate due to foreign intervention and speculation, a currency issued by the government can be monitored a lot easier.
So can a currency controlled by a central bank. You are focusing on what is behind the curtain and it really doesn't matter much.

I'm a bit baffled why people think the government would do a better job controlling money than an independent organization those members are appointed by congress. This would put monetary policy directly in the cross hairs of partisan battles, not to mention populist sentiment.

Also, in a non-backed fiat currency how does one effectively reduce the money supply? You know say congress prints a bit too much to pay for its plans for world domination and inflation gets out of hand...what mechanism does congress have to reduce inflation at this point?

Last edited by user_id; 02-07-2011 at 03:27 PM..
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Old 02-07-2011, 04:50 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,892 posts, read 7,717,150 times
Reputation: 3042
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post

Okay, so it won't solve the problems so we are back with banking panics and financial crisis. You want full liability for the banks, how do you have that given the sort of systemic risks that exist in the financial system?

Also, the regulations implemented after the depression were not created by "corporate lawyers". Financial companies begged to have the "red tape" removed and they slowly got their way over the last 20~30 years. Its amazing how consistently a new financial crisis would form the minute they reduced regulations.


So can a currency controlled by a central bank. You are focusing on what is behind the curtain and it really doesn't matter much.

I'm a bit baffled why people think the government would do a better job controlling money than an independent organization those members are appointed by congress. This would put monetary policy directly in the cross hairs of partisan battles, not to mention populist sentiment.

Also, in a non-backed fiat currency how does one effectively reduce the money supply? You know say congress prints a bit too much to pay for its plans for world domination and inflation gets out of hand...what mechanism does congress have to reduce inflation at this point?
Regulations weren’t reduced, just rearranged and at all times they had the wink wink backing of the government so they could do what they wanted.

Very good point about government control of currency, it does worry me. Hence why I am looking for holes in this theory. I recently learned about it after years of being for a gold standard.

Based on what I see I like it better than a Fed or Gold backed currency.

As Friedman said, a computer could control the supply of currency.

http://www.themoneymasters.com/monetary-reform-act/

One of my Fav economists Michael Hudson is interviewed in this movie. Very interesting history.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti81OE19v_Y&feature=related

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Old 02-07-2011, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 18,096,168 times
Reputation: 4343
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
Regulations weren’t reduced, just rearranged and at all times they had the wink wink backing of the government so they could do what they wanted.
You can call it whatever you wish, the fact remains that regulations were weakened and that played a role in both the Savings and Loan crisis and the current crisis.

Anyhow, I'm not really interested in what you like, you seem like the sort that searches for ideas/theories that rub you the right way. I'm interested in the underlying logic and you're not addressing any of the key issues. Namely:

1.) You want more liability for the banks, but haven't described how this is suppose to work given the instabilities that exist in the banking system.

2.) You want purely fiat currency not backed by anything but aren't explaining what its suppose to achieve or how it solves any of the issues in the current banking system.

Lastly, I'm still curious how one efficiently reduces the money system in the system you are advocating. I'm not sure how that is suppose to work, historically these sorts of currencies tend to result in rapid inflation.
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