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Old 02-25-2011, 06:20 AM
 
14,400 posts, read 14,303,039 times
Reputation: 45727

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Oil prices are high because the American people made a deliberate decision decades ago to forgo mass transit and trains in favor of private passenger cars and interstate freeways. You might as well blame all the Presidents (or none of them) for our current energy predicament. It may well be that things will quiet down in the Middleast and that oil prices will drop below $90 a barrel again. If so, I think everyone will pretty much just accept that gas costs $3 a gallon.

However, the only longterm solution to this policy is alternative fuels that will free us from dependence on oil from other countries. Time and time again, Americans show an interest in alternative energy sources until oil prices start to drop. Than suddenly we lose interest and want to go back to our old ways of big cars and cheap gasoline.

We, the people, not our politicians developed a "love affair" with the automobile. We, the people, want bigger and ever wider interstate freeways. We, the people, barely provide enough government funding to keep train service through Amtrak alive. We, the people, stand by while our energy policy becomes ever more dependent on oil imports from the most unstable countries on this earth such as Iran, Iraq, Venezuela, Libya, and Bahrain. How sensible is that? I don't have Saudi Arabia on the "unstable list" yet, but it could easily get there and, if it does, oil prices in this country will soar like a sky rocket.

There's an old saying about how when you "sew the wind that you reap the whirlwind".

If Americans really want a way out of foreign oil dependence, there is a way out, but its going to be painful and it won't happen overnight. Until we arrive at this consensus, blaming any one politician is not only dumb, its dishonest and counterproductive.
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Old 02-25-2011, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,943 posts, read 17,252,682 times
Reputation: 4686
Here is something most people don't realize. You all think drilling or building more refineries will fix this problem. It won't. Getting a green vehicle will provide some individiual relief, but it will no make a difference in the large scheme of things. These high prices are not caused by any oil shortage, they are caused by rampant speculation. Thanks to Bush and to some extent Clinton, oil futures can be traded like a stock, and anybody can buy and sell them and never have to take delivery of the physical barrels. Want gas prices to go down? REPEAL the Commodities Modernization Act of 2000.
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Old 02-25-2011, 06:26 AM
 
10,494 posts, read 27,241,410 times
Reputation: 6718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post

Slackjaw, you are getting so many Rep Points from me, lately they say I have maxed you out.
Unfortunately Philip T, I have repped you on some posts before. Now that I know this, I will never rep you again.
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:16 AM
 
3,128 posts, read 6,533,746 times
Reputation: 1599
No b/c they don't pay for gas. They probably have no idea what the price of gas is.
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:03 AM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,848,488 times
Reputation: 18304
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Oil prices are high because the American people made a deliberate decision decades ago to forgo mass transit and trains in favor of private passenger cars and interstate freeways. You might as well blame all the Presidents (or none of them) for our current energy predicament. It may well be that things will quiet down in the Middleast and that oil prices will drop below $90 a barrel again. If so, I think everyone will pretty much just accept that gas costs $3 a gallon.

However, the only longterm solution to this policy is alternative fuels that will free us from dependence on oil from other countries. Time and time again, Americans show an interest in alternative energy sources until oil prices start to drop. Than suddenly we lose interest and want to go back to our old ways of big cars and cheap gasoline.

We, the people, not our politicians developed a "love affair" with the automobile. We, the people, want bigger and ever wider interstate freeways. We, the people, barely provide enough government funding to keep train service through Amtrak alive. We, the people, stand by while our energy policy becomes ever more dependent on oil imports from the most unstable countries on this earth such as Iran, Iraq, Venezuela, Libya, and Bahrain. How sensible is that? I don't have Saudi Arabia on the "unstable list" yet, but it could easily get there and, if it does, oil prices in this country will soar like a sky rocket.

There's an old saying about how when you "sew the wind that you reap the whirlwind".

If Americans really want a way out of foreign oil dependence, there is a way out, but its going to be painful and it won't happen overnight. Until we arrive at this consensus, blaming any one politician is not only dumb, its dishonest and counterproductive.
If you look those countires have higher gasoline prices and other cost. That transportation system they have is paid for that way as well as other programs.AmTrak is a billion a year loss system and that is just taxpayer cost. If they charge what it cost like many public systems people couldn't afford to ride them.If you really thnik the US is the real driving force in incereased use a crude you are dead wrong. The emerging markets are drive the increase morer and more , Just as China is now the largest market for automobiles.No alterntive to crude is in site. We could be producing a huge portion of our elctrical energyy needs by nuclear right now like France who produces 70% of their need . Much of our publictrnasport could be natural gas more also. It that politcs of environment drives us to make politcal rather than practical decisons on survival.W e can't even estiamte the cost of a new refinery oir time span to build on its such a political and regulation nitemare. We wilkl just keep shiing dolars to the rst fo teh world that is movig ahead with crude exploration as we have done since tyhe 70 embargo shicked americans.

Last edited by texdav; 02-25-2011 at 10:17 AM..
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Old 02-25-2011, 06:00 PM
 
6,385 posts, read 11,884,616 times
Reputation: 6874
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Here is something most people don't realize. You all think drilling or building more refineries will fix this problem. It won't. Getting a green vehicle will provide some individiual relief, but it will no make a difference in the large scheme of things. These high prices are not caused by any oil shortage, they are caused by rampant speculation. Thanks to Bush and to some extent Clinton, oil futures can be traded like a stock, and anybody can buy and sell them and never have to take delivery of the physical barrels. Want gas prices to go down? REPEAL the Commodities Modernization Act of 2000.
This isn't fully true. Someone takes delivery of the physical product in most commodities markets, its just not the traders. I agree that speculation can drive up prices, but it could also drive down prices below the cost of extraction too. Natural Gas is getting close to this situation now and it will create a big reduction in supply at some point because traders will exacerbate the extent of the drop in prices by speculating they will go down further than cost structure should suggest.

Fact is you can't stop trading of commodities. If you take it off exchanges then it falls to companies working like AIG used to. CFTC is probably going to cut the speculation from some parties to a degree, but this is just a fact of life in a market economy. To do anything else would be accepting government price controls.
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:28 PM
 
78,404 posts, read 60,579,949 times
Reputation: 49687
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone8570 View Post
Don't like it? Move to Venezuela.

Why do we even have libraries in this country if people don't use them? Go read up on oil and gas.
Amen. I have lost all patience with the uneducated masses in the US ranting and raving about crap they have no understanding of while briefly stopping their viewing of Jersey Shore and American Idol.

Seriously, I have no idea about how to build a sail boat but do I go into the sailboat forum and tell them that they should be made out of tofu and that it's ALL OBAMAS FAULT that sailboats can't sail directly into the wind?

Really, it's sad. Education in this country is dismal and we are over-run with people educated on "self esteem" which translates directly to "be loud and moronic".
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Indiana Uplands
26,407 posts, read 46,575,260 times
Reputation: 19544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Amen. I have lost all patience with the uneducated masses in the US ranting and raving about crap they have no understanding of while briefly stopping their viewing of Jersey Shore and American Idol.

Seriously, I have no idea about how to build a sail boat but do I go into the sailboat forum and tell them that they should be made out of tofu and that it's ALL OBAMAS FAULT that sailboats can't sail directly into the wind?

Really, it's sad. Education in this country is dismal and we are over-run with people educated on "self esteem" which translates directly to "be loud and moronic".
Hey, that's one thing I really LIKE about JOCO. The place at least has a high percentage of educated people. The area I live in now is pretty much an idiocracy and I am NOT LYING.
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Old 02-26-2011, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,943 posts, read 17,252,682 times
Reputation: 4686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willy702 View Post
This isn't fully true. Someone takes delivery of the physical product in most commodities markets, its just not the traders. I agree that speculation can drive up prices, but it could also drive down prices below the cost of extraction too. Natural Gas is getting close to this situation now and it will create a big reduction in supply at some point because traders will exacerbate the extent of the drop in prices by speculating they will go down further than cost structure should suggest.

Fact is you can't stop trading of commodities. If you take it off exchanges then it falls to companies working like AIG used to. CFTC is probably going to cut the speculation from some parties to a degree, but this is just a fact of life in a market economy. To do anything else would be accepting government price controls.
Yes speculation can work the other way too. That explains why we had $30 oil in early 2009, which is much lower than the true price should be.
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
16,289 posts, read 32,342,958 times
Reputation: 21891
For comparison;

In 1965 the average cost of gas nationwide was .31 cents, the average income was $4,658. and the top selling car on the market, the Chevy Impala got 18 mpg on the freeway.

In February 2011 the average cost of gas Nationwide is $3.189 a gallon, the average income is $39,527. The top selling car on the market the Toyota Camry got 33 mpg on the Freeway/

Gasoline on average increased 10 X in the period. Incomes increased just under 8.5 X in the period. MPG increased by 85%.

Personally I make way over todays average income. I also pay more per gallon at $3.85 a gallon in Oxnard, California. I also live at a higher standard of living now, have more expectations for life, have more electronic gadgets, have a car that has accessories that they never had back in 1965. I would say that I am living a nicer life than my parents did in 1965. Although I would love to pay less in gasoline, I just don't see how we are paying too much for the stuff in comparison to the year I was born.
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