Trickle-Down Theory (interest, tax, money, banks)

[plaidmom]

Some of you will get this. Many will not. That's OK.

I'm a visual artist by training, a naturalist at heart. I spend many hours outdoors (more on that later).

I know that there are many Smart People on City Data; some of you economists by education. I hope you can help me understand, visually, the current economic condition of the United States.

Is that too much to ask?

I'm mostly interested in Trickle-Down theory.

During the most recent down-turn I notice that "trickle-down" in the negative sense worked amazingly well? Did anyone else notice? I mean, Wall Street took a huge nose dive, banks went under, and suddenly hundreds, if not thousands,of maids and gardeners and other domestic help, lost their jobs. It was almost instantaneous.


The lower class middles soon followed suit, with factories shuttering their doors.

OK. Deep breath.

So FFW to NOW. We are supposedly in "recovery mode. The "rich" retained their tax breaks. Yay. Corporate profits are UP. Yay.

So, for the lower and middle classes: WHERE IS THE MONEY???

Is it hung up or "stuck" somewhere? How can we free it???

This is where the "outside" part fits in: When I am out hiking and I see a small creek or stream or waterfall that is "blocked" by leaves or other debris, I always stop to free things up (yeah plaidmom f's with mother nature-get over it! ).

I suppose I visualize(remember I am visual by nature) this "wealth block" in much the same way. How can WE (US citizens) free that capital up? What needs to be moved or poked or pushed downstream? What "stick" or other tool do we need to break up that "dam" .

(p.s. for those who are wondering, we, my family, are not, personally, hurting. Just a citizen who cares about her country )

[Java378]

Originally Posted by plaidmom

Some of you will get this. Many will not. That's OK.

I'm a visual artist by training, a naturalist at heart. I spend many hours outdoors (more on that later).

I know that there are many Smart People on City Data; some of you economists by education. I hope you can help me understand, visually, the current economic condition of the United States.

Is that too much to ask?

I'm mostly interested in Trickle-Down theory.

During the most recent down-turn I notice that "trickle-down" in the negative sense worked amazingly well? Did anyone else notice? I mean, Wall Street took a huge nose dive, banks went under, and suddenly hundreds, if not thousands,of maids and gardeners and other domestic help, lost their jobs. It was almost instantaneous.


The lower class middles soon followed suit, with factories shuttering their doors.

OK. Deep breath.

So FFW to NOW. We are supposedly in "recovery mode. The "rich" retained their tax breaks. Yay. Corporate profits are UP. Yay.

So, for the lower and middle classes: WHERE IS THE MONEY???

Is it hung up or "stuck" somewhere? How can we free it???

This is where the "outside" part fits in: When I am out hiking and I see a small creek or stream or waterfall that is "blocked" by leaves or other debris, I always stop to free things up (yeah plaidmom f's with mother nature-get over it! ).

I suppose I visualize(remember I am visual by nature) this "wealth block" in much the same way. How can WE (US citizens) free that capital up? What needs to be moved or poked or pushed downstream? What "stick" or other tool do we need to break up that "dam" .

(p.s. for those who are wondering, we, my family, are not personally, hurting. Just a citizen who cares about her country )

This.


Also, I notice this board is friendlier to the unemployed than the actual Work & Employment board. Hmmm

[RiverBird]

Originally Posted by plaidmom

So, for the lower and middle classes: WHERE IS THE MONEY???

Is it hung up or "stuck" somewhere? How can we free it???

plaidmom, REAGAN (or, more accurately, the Reagan administration) cooked up the trickle down theory and sold it to the gullible masses. It's one of the best ever jokes in American history: help the rich to evade taxes and the disposable and spendable money resulting from this will circulate into the system and somehow, in some way, will reach down to the huddled masses yearning to be free! Surely as an artist you have the imagination to visualize this, think of it as a political cartoon.

[X14Freak]

Actually in a sense, tickle down theory does work. Millions and millions of people have been lifted out of poverty. In fact, more people will enter the middle class than at any time in history. Of course, I am referring to the emerging market such as China and India. America's middle class on the other hand is being hollowed out.

Here is a quote from an article I read in the Atlantic:

The U.S.-based CEO of one of the world’s largest hedge funds told me that his firm’s investment committee often discusses the question of who wins and who loses in today’s economy. In a recent internal debate, he said, one of his senior colleagues had argued that the hollowing-out of the American middle class didn’t really matter. “His point was that if the transformation of the world economy lifts four people in China and India out of poverty and into the middle class, and meanwhile means one American drops out of the middle class, that’s not such a bad trade,” the CEO recalled.

Here is the article:
The Rise of the New Global Elite - Magazine - The Atlantic

[RiverBird]

Originally Posted by X14Freak

Here is a quote from an article I read in the Atlantic:

The U.S.-based CEO of one of the world’s largest hedge funds told me that his firm’s investment committee often discusses the question of who wins and who loses in today’s economy. In a recent internal debate, he said, one of his senior colleagues had argued that the hollowing-out of the American middle class didn’t really matter. “His point was that if the transformation of the world economy lifts four people in China and India out of poverty and into the middle class, and meanwhile means one American drops out of the middle class, that’s not such a bad trade,” the CEO recalled.

Here is the article:
The Rise of the New Global Elite - Magazine - The Atlantic

Oh that's nice, real nice. Good to know

[jtur88]

"Trickle down" worked on the gullible wonderfully, because, sadly, it worked exactly the way it would have if economics were a real science.

Gravity is one of the weakest forces in the universe, and "trickle down" was called that because it alluded to the fact that if water is applied to the top of the system, gravity will cause it to trickle down to the bottom, the way economists told us money given to their rich sponsors and puppeteers would trickle down here to us bottom feeders.

Put some water in the top of a tall glass with ice cubes in it, and see now readily it trickles down over the cubes into the bottom of the glass. But here is the kicker: Put in a straw, and apply a very tiny amount of suction, and see how easily all the water shoots right back up to the top, easily overcoming the weak force of gravity.

That's how quickly and easily all the money, which supposedly trickled down in the economy, got sucked right back up to the top, as those at the top doing the sucking found it very easy to overcome the weak force of gravity, and prove that what appears to trickle down, is simply acting in a closed system in which it is again made to rise back to the top. All it took was the application of a very small amount of the vast amount of energy the rich have at their disposal.

Since the introduction of the trickle down theory, the rich have just kept on getting richer and the poor getting poorer. What trickled down was illusory, and was no match for those sucking the wealth right back up again.

[Z3N1TH 0N3]

Originally Posted by Java378

This.


Also, I notice this board is friendlier to the unemployed than the actual Work & Employment board. Hmmm

There are a lot of stubborn old timers on the Work & Employment board. You will likely notice that the average age of those who are less compassionate towards the unemployed or people with employment issues is somewhere around 55+. Not to say ALL older people embrace the same mentality, but I think that it is more likely than say someone in their 20s or 30s, simply because of the era in which the grew up in. The younger gens are the people who are more likely to get what's going on NOW. Those are the people who will be empathetic to you, and not just spew gimmicky lines like the good corporate hack that they aren't.

[LeavingMA]

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

plaidmom, REAGAN (or, more accurately, the Reagan administration) cooked up the trickle down theory and sold it to the gullible masses. It's one of the best ever jokes in American history: help the rich to evade taxes and the disposable and spendable money resulting from this will circulate into the system and somehow, in some way, will reach down to the huddled masses yearning to be free! Surely as an artist you have the imagination to visualize this, think of it as a political cartoon.

Except it even started before Reagan. JFK mentioned it quite a few times and believed in "trickle down", but most democrats don't want to mention this.

You want to see the rich evading taxes...start taxing them more and more and you will see them do everything to evade paying.

[radraja]

I don't think the current recovery can prove or disprove the trickle down theory.

The theory is based on a trickle, not raging rapids.

The recovery has only been going on for a very short period of time. For someone to say: "Big business just started making more money, but I haven't seen any improvement at the bottom yet, so the trickle down theory must be a lie," is ridiculous. If the trickle down theory does work, it obviously won't work instantaneously. It will be slow...like a trickle (hence the name, yes?).


(NOTE: I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with the theory...I'm just saying that the current situation doesn't provide sufficient evidence to prove it one way or the other.)

[broadbill]

An appropriate motivational poster:

http://500motivators.com/motivate/me...-trickle-down/