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Old 03-20-2011, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,954,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCUBS1 View Post
You often must first fail in order to succeed. You LEARN from your failures and do better next time. Failures help you perfect your skills, learn what works, and learn tenacity.
I think you meant:

I often must first fail in order to succeed. I LEARN from my failures and do better next time. Failures help me perfect my skills, learn what works, and learn tenacity.

We are not all you, and what works for you doesn't necessarily work for everyone else.
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
5,751 posts, read 10,376,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
If someone has a good job and the probability that they make more than they currently make by starting a business is low, why would they start the business? It would be a total gamble, not a calculated decision.
Is it only the monetary risk with you? What about other risks? Believe it or not, some people may find it riskier staying in a better-paying job working for someone else than creating their own path for long-term success. For some, there is a risk of being in a job that is not self-fulfilling, of being at the whim of corporate cuts, of not realizing a personal dream - not just for more money, but for creative self-direction, personal growth, career control, flexible lifestyle, etc.

For some, there is risk in having to look to someone else for a job/salary rather than relying on their own abilities for creating work and bringing in funds. In this economy, I find this kind of self-sufficiency less risky in the long-term.

Last edited by GoCUBS1; 03-20-2011 at 11:46 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
5,751 posts, read 10,376,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I think you meant:

I often must first fail in order to succeed. I LEARN from my failures and do better next time. Failures help me perfect my skills, learn what works, and learn tenacity.

We are not all you, and what works for you doesn't necessarily work for everyone else.
I agree there is no "one size fits all" for success and we all have different tolerances for failure and risk. But I also believe some form of failure is usually necessary for success. I also believe the majority of intelligent people are capable of learning from failure and improving their skills and tenacity. I believe that fear of failure is one of the biggest inhibitors to personal success. This is a lesson I try to teach my kids.
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:25 AM
 
28,895 posts, read 54,147,443 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCUBS1 View Post
Is it only the monetary risk with you? What about other risks? Believe it or not, some people may find it riskier staying in a better-paying job working for someone else than creating their own path for long-term success. For some, there is a risk of being in a job that is not self-fulfilling, of being at the whim of corporate cuts, of not realizing a personal dream - not just for more money, but for creative self-direction, personal growth, career control, flexible lifestyle, etc.

For some, there is risk in having to look to someone else for a job/salary rather than relying on their own abilities for creating work and bringing in funds. In this economy, I find this kind of self-sufficiency leff risky in the long-term.
BINGO. Job security is a pleasant myth. Actually, it's not even a pleasant myth. It's a rather dangerous notion.

I have known a lot of people in life who opted for the golden handcuffs, staying in the same soul-destroying job year after year, thinking that they would be able to retire from their cush position with the public utility or the bank.

Except it quite often doesn't work that way. The principle of creative destruction ensures that healthy organizations have to constantly remake and reorganize themselves, paring away that which is not cost-effective or productive. So now that I'm in my late forties, I see a lot of contemporaries suddenly wondering what to do with the rest of their working lives. All because they took it for granted that they would always be getting a paycheck.

On the other hand, I haven't picked up a paycheck from anyone else in 19 years. Sure, it was tough to begin with. But over time, I have outearned those who stayed in nice stable jobs. I have garnered far more recognition and satisfaction for my work, too, rather than let some feckless boss get the credit. What's more, my livelihood is not dependent on the caprices of corporate politics or buyouts or anything else. I keep a select number of happy, long-term clients, but continually scan the horizon looking for other opportunities. I get to keep what I earn, instead of busting my ass to earn a 3-5% bump in salary. Just as importantly, I can do all this while still picking up my kids from school or knocking off early to attend my son's lacrosse match.

So now, all those colleagues of mine who thought me crazy to go out on my own call up for advice, wondering how they're going to last through the second half of their careers. I am wholly sympathetic, and have used my own contacts to help them along. That being said, I can't help but believe that I was the one who made the right decision--because I chose for the long-term, rather than for the short-term security of a twice-a-month paycheck.

In short, entrepreneurship isn't for everybody. But it's something that everybody should consider if they want to really be successful over the long haul, in all senses of the word.
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Old 03-20-2011, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,954,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCUBS1 View Post
I agree there is no "one size fits all" for success and we all have different tolerances for failure and risk. But I also believe some form of failure is usually necessary for success. I also believe the majority of intelligent people are capable of learning from failure and improving their skills and tenacity. I believe that fear of failure is one of the biggest inhibitors to personal success. This is a lesson I try to teach my kids.
Fear has crucial survival value in evolution. You don't even need to teach your kids the lesson that you only touch the hot stove once.

Einstein's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.

If you try entrepreneurship and fail, you have two choices. Try again, or try something else. I'm not sure you can make a general maxim that trying again is better.
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Old 03-20-2011, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
5,751 posts, read 10,376,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
I also didn't get the memo about supporting and agreeing with other business owners, sorry.
I wrote support (not agree with) other business owners and believe it is good business practice. I came to this particular forum for support, advice and to bounce ideas not to nitpick or attack others (sound familiar?). And perhaps I can occasionally offer solutions that worked for me. Though I do wonder if this forum is worthwhile as the majority of posters seem to have a negative, fatalist, anti-business perspective which I do not subscribe to. But you can still find some occasional gems like CPG's recent advice post.

Last edited by GoCUBS1; 03-20-2011 at 01:06 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 03-20-2011, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
5,751 posts, read 10,376,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Fear has crucial survival value in evolution. You don't even need to teach your kids the lesson that you only touch the hot stove once.

Einstein's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.

If you try entrepreneurship and fail, you have two choices. Try again, or try something else. I'm not sure you can make a general maxim that trying again is better.
I don't see it in such black and white terms. Do you think most businesses fail because of one single big hot stove failure? Or is it a journey with a series of smaller failures that one may learn how to correct in order to improve their business?


I see 3 choices:
  • Stay an entrepreneur and try the exact same thing over again (agree this is insanity).
  • Stay an entrepreneur and improve your methods by learning from your failures.
  • Give up and do not stay an entrepreneur.
p.s. Interesting point about fear being a crucial survival skill. I do think fear/risk tolerance is a double-edged sword. Many potential rewards AND potential risks to one being fearless. I think your risk tolerance setpoint is often determined in childhood. E.g. Do you let a young child climb to the top of a 40 foot oak tree, jump off a rock cliff, ski off a ski jump, etc.. I have let my kids do these things (with supervision/practice) at a young age (just as my parents did), but I'm sure many parents may find this negligent. I have tried to raise my kids to be risk-tolerant (not risk-adverse) which, as a parent, can bring a lot of additional worries into your life.

Last edited by GoCUBS1; 03-20-2011 at 01:32 PM..
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:59 AM
 
Location: Lincoln, CA
505 posts, read 1,664,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
On the other hand, I haven't picked up a paycheck from anyone else in 19 years. Sure, it was tough to begin with. But over time, I have outearned those who stayed in nice stable jobs. I have garnered far more recognition and satisfaction for my work, too, rather than let some feckless boss get the credit. What's more, my livelihood is not dependent on the caprices of corporate politics or buyouts or anything else. I keep a select number of happy, long-term clients, but continually scan the horizon looking for other opportunities. I get to keep what I earn, instead of busting my ass to earn a 3-5% bump in salary. Just as importantly, I can do all this while still picking up my kids from school or knocking off early to attend my son's lacrosse match.
Great post CPG!

My situation was exactly the same. I went through law school, settled with a very reputable law firm (the biggest in California actually) and had a very good job. In fact, my former boss was the one who encouraged me to quit and start my own business. The first three years was absolute hell and I do not ever want to repeat what I went through. There were times when my marriage was affected and my financial woes had me close to quitting and going back to the 9-5 job, but I am quite glad I hung in there.

There is no sure fire way to success and not everyone will agree, but I find that it helps EXTREMELY when you have some great friends and people who has gone through starting a business and the experience for you to fall back on. Most people do not have that opportunity unfortunately and have to learn everything from mistakes.
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Old 03-21-2011, 07:47 AM
 
4,183 posts, read 6,523,345 times
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I can empathize with those who prefer to be self-employed and the risks (and rewards) associated with that. Control of your own schedule is probably the main reward. You can work as hard as you want, or as little. Nobody will yell at you if you don't show up at the office (except perhaps your spouse, who is now frantic that you're not making any money).

Some fields are more amenable to self-employment than others. In medicine, that has been the norm for decades. The success rate here is much higher than, say, the restaurant business (though there are no guarantees medicine will be as lucrative going forward). The profit margins in medical practice are about 50% or more (depending on how well you control overhead).

Since finishing med school and residency training in the mid 1990s, I have been self-employed. Joined a group and made partner within 2 years. As part owner of the corp, I determine my own salary and benefits. I choose my schedule. Obviously, I can't pay myself beyond what I actually produce. And I can't just sit on my butt while my partners work off theirs. It's "eat what you kill" work ethic. At the end of the year, we share profits among all the partners. It's hard work, but rewarding.

But I have to admit, the success rate in medicine is higher because we have a powerful lobby - the AMA - which sees to it that we have a monopoly. And the requirement for licensure ensures that there is a high barrier to entry in this business. No competitor can just set up shop across the street and start seeing patients without first having a medical license. It's not a free market. So the risk of business failure here is much reduced.
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Old 03-21-2011, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,954,125 times
Reputation: 36644
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddiesgirl View Post
Most people do not have that opportunity unfortunately and have to learn everything from mistakes.
No, they don't have to. They can choose a career in which success can be attained with fewer disastrous mistakes. People do not "have to" become self-employed or entrepreneurs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCUBS1 View Post
I think your risk tolerance setpoint is often determined in childhood. E.g. Do you let a young child climb to the top of a 40 foot oak tree, jump off a rock cliff, ski off a ski jump, etc.. I have let my kids do these things (with supervision/practice) at a young age (just as my parents did), but I'm sure many parents may find this negligent. I have tried to raise my kids to be risk-tolerant (not risk-adverse) which, as a parent, can bring a lot of additional worries into your life.
That's not how things work. Some people, by nature, possess the necessary skills (management, organizational, self-starter, goal-oriented, profit-driven, etc,) to give them the potential to be successful entrepreneurs. Some don't. If a kid is a klutz, no amount of "trying again" is ever going to make him a competitive skiier, and to encourage him to dedicate his entire life to that goal is not just idiotic, it is sadistic.

And running a business is a lot like skiing. It's like a competitive sport, and one needs to be better than the competition in order to succeed. The only way one become competent is by either having an abundance of the natural skills and talents that it requires, or by dedicating so much effort to the particular skill, that many other life fulfillments get left untapped.

It is unfair of you to say that other personal endeavors be discarded, in order that entrepreneurial skills be perfected, so that everyone can have the life goal of running his own business. In a competitive area where many will still fail, and then have nothing at all to show for their career.

Learning to be willing to take a risk is NOT all it takes to be a successful business owner, and anyone who thinks they will eventually succeed if they keep blowing their life savings and accumulating huge debts on failed efforts is a fool.

As for me, I am deliriously happy that I never owned my own business. I'm delighted that I was never tied down to something I could not walk away from, I'm glad I did not destroy my health with the stress of the responsibility of business management and risk, I pleases that I never made it my life work to manipulate other people to my own economic advantage, and I'm delighted that I, in my old age, am not strapping my family to an enterprise that they don't want to be committed to. It's not for me, and I seriously doubt that I am alone in that sentiment.

Last edited by jtur88; 03-21-2011 at 08:13 AM..
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