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Old 04-22-2011, 12:42 PM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,698,345 times
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it is amazing that we are going into libya to help the rebels. this whole conflict in libya would have been over and done with a while ago if we would have stayed out of it. the really is no justification for our involvement.

 
Old 04-22-2011, 12:45 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,403,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainnj View Post
it is amazing that we are going into libya to help the rebels. This whole conflict in libya would have been over and done with a while ago if we would have stayed out of it. The really is no justification for our involvement.
oil
 
Old 04-22-2011, 12:46 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,403,981 times
Reputation: 3730
sorry...actually...cheap oil is what i should have said.
 
Old 04-22-2011, 12:49 PM
 
12,867 posts, read 14,914,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
current prices are still lower than they should be. we're still subsidizing oil companies and the production of ethanol. cutting the tax on gasoline would have two effects: 1. our consumption (demand) would increase and prices would continue to rise. 2. our revenue for maintaining the infrastructure we drive on would decrease and the infrastructure would further deteriorate.

neither of those effects help our pockets.

stop the oil subsidies and let people figure out how to drive a little more efficiently whether that be slowing down 5mph, carpooling, combining trips, downsizing vehicles, using transportation alternatives, etc.
current prices are still lower than they should be? says who?

from that statement alone, i am guessing that you aren't concerned about the pocketbook angle of the equation.

prices should be directly related to supply and demand- not to artificially forcing our dollar to drop and jacking up fuel prices that way.


who has the right to do that? why would anyone (especially a person hired by us to represent us-an alleged public servant) intentionally want to interfere with turning the country around?

if the intention is to keep tightening the noose and strangle all of the small businesses / mom and pop operations in the country, and to stop economic recovery dead in its tracks then mission accomplished.

if more small businesses fail, more people will be out of work, and then who do you think will be paying the taxes to "fix the infrastructure? where did all that money taken recently to fix the infrastructure go anyhow?

i trust myself handling my money better than i trust the government handling my money.
 
Old 04-22-2011, 12:50 PM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,698,345 times
Reputation: 24590
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
sorry...actually...cheap oil is what i should have said.
im not sure how helping the rebels works into the cheap oil thing. i would think maintaining the status quo of ghaddafi in power would be better for cheap oil.

now that you put it that way, i believe one argument the anti-war folks use for our oil wars is actually to boost the price of oil to enrich oil companies. i tend to agree that the wars push up the cost of oil, not down. oil should be cheaper.
 
Old 04-22-2011, 12:51 PM
 
12,867 posts, read 14,914,172 times
Reputation: 4459
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
it is amazing that we are going into libya to help the rebels. this whole conflict in libya would have been over and done with a while ago if we would have stayed out of it. the really is no justification for our involvement.
we can't justify ANY of the actions lately. we fight the rebels and we pay the rebels. it seems like they are trying to have BOTH sides in the war and that sure as heck isn't good for the soldiers or the taxpayers. it isn't solving problems-but creating problems.

look at today's 6 headlines:

Libya Stalemate Looms, Warns Mullen
Obama Approves Drone Strikes in Libya
Report: NATO Kills Seven Civilians in Tripoli Suburb Strike
US Launches First Drone Attacks to Break Deadlock With Gadhafi
Risks Rise as West 'Forced' to Expand Libya Mission
Libya Govt Arming Civilians in Anticipation of NATO Invasion

is there anyone who thiniks this is going in the right direction for us?
 
Old 04-22-2011, 12:56 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,403,981 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
current prices are still lower than they should be? says who?

from that statement alone, i am guessing that you aren't concerned about the pocketbook angle of the equation.

prices should be directly related to supply and demand- not to artificially forcing our dollar to drop and jacking up fuel prices that way.


who has the right to do that? why would anyone (especially a person hired by us to represent us-an alleged public servant) intentionally want to interfere with turning the country around?

if the intention is to keep tightening the noose and strangle all of the small businesses / mom and pop operations in the country, and to stop economic recovery dead in its tracks then mission accomplished.

if more small businesses fail, more people will be out of work, and then who do you think will be paying the taxes to "fix the infrastructure? where did all that money taken recently to fix the infrastructure go anyhow?

i trust myself handling my money better than i trust the government handling my money.
well, simply remove the subsidies that exist in the oil industry, and prices would be somewhat higher than they are right now. remove the subsidies of ethanol, and they would be even higher (assuming the requirement that gas have ethanol in it remains).

you can blame the dollar value all you want...but demand for oil is increasing. we may or may not have hit peak supply...but we will soon. prices have nowhere to go but up.
 
Old 04-22-2011, 12:59 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,403,981 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
im not sure how helping the rebels works into the cheap oil thing. i would think maintaining the status quo of ghaddafi in power would be better for cheap oil.

now that you put it that way, i believe one argument the anti-war folks use for our oil wars is actually to boost the price of oil to enrich oil companies. i tend to agree that the wars push up the cost of oil, not down. oil should be cheaper.
in the short term, the cost goes up. but in the long term, assuming the result is a more stable middle east, the price remains lower. if we bust up these regimes that are all part of the OPEC cartel, we'd weaken the monopolistic supply side they have created. then, we'd get more of the supply we demand and not be subject to that swing.....in theory of course.

i've never really heard anti-war folks talk about boosting the price to enrich oil companies. that may be out there...but that sounds more conspiracy theory to me. maybe it's true though. oil doesn't get all that much cheaper than what we american consumers pay for it though.
 
Old 04-22-2011, 01:04 PM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,698,345 times
Reputation: 24590
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
in the short term, the cost goes up. but in the long term, assuming the result is a more stable middle east, the price remains lower. if we bust up these regimes that are all part of the OPEC cartel, we'd weaken the monopolistic supply side they have created. then, we'd get more of the supply we demand and not be subject to that swing.....in theory of course.

i've never really heard anti-war folks talk about boosting the price to enrich oil companies. that may be out there...but that sounds more conspiracy theory to me. maybe it's true though. oil doesn't get all that much cheaper than what we american consumers pay for it though.
the problem is that now we are opposing stability in favor of chaos. ghaddafi was a bad mamma jamma, but that was a stable situation.

 
Old 04-22-2011, 01:09 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,403,981 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
the problem is that now we are opposing stability in favor of chaos. ghaddafi was a bad mamma jamma, but that was a stable situation.
in the 90s there were different rules on oil as a commodity right? amazing how much more stable prices were. but, we were also not seeing the same demand increases we saw in the 2000s i imagine.

you're right...we are creating chaos. but we *think* it will result in more order.

don't ask me to explain why...but that's what we, collectively as a nation, seem to be trying to achieve over there.

i say....figure out how to stop caring about resources from that part of the world and GTFO.
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