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Not being legally eligible doesn't mean that you aren't receiving government assistance - especially on costly things like health care & education ... there is all sorts of government assistance that opens up to them using the same forged documents that allow them to work in the first place
There are no shortages of examples of illegals being on at least state sponsored health care if not full out assistance
You also have to factor in that families that consist of illegal parents & US born children will be eligible for their citizen children to receive aid
The cost is something that many organizations have tried to tackle ..... the CBO looked at it and the best they could come up with was something along the lines of "there is a net cost between illegal headed homes and welfare/assistance - however, it's probably fairly modest"
It's not something you can easily grab - and if you start out with a premise that illegals are presumably gainfully employed then you've failed out of the gate
why do we have to factor in their children, who are US Citizens? they are citizens...so it's not a factor.
i personally live in a state where there are plenty of illegal immigrants, but with friends and family in the medical profession, i know of no examples of an illegal immigrant getting assistance.
as for forged documents...most instances of illegal immigrants that i've seen are people working under the table for cash. no documents need to be forged for that. the problem lies in the employers....not the forging of documents to trick employers. many employers knowingly employ illegal immigrants.
Your assumption here is that employers would have to pay more for legal workers than illegal. I am not sure that is the case. The recent story about the number of people applying for Mc Donald’s jobs shows a gigantic number of unemployed willing to work for minimum wage. I have also heard the argument that illegals are paid less than minimum, but no one to my knowledge has provided any proof of that.
If there were upward pressure on wages, would that not put more money into the economy by the people most likely to be spending it in the marketplace?
Also the major political parties supporting illegal immigration are not mom and pop businesses; they are major corporations like Tyson, who are translating lower wages into corporate profits that do little to improve things for the average citizen.
basic math would indicate that legal workers would be paid more. take home pay with taxes vs take home pay without taxes. you could pay someone under the table around $5/hr and it would accomplish the same thing as paying someone a taxed $7/hr. roughly...i didn't do the actual calculations.
mcdonald's applications - yes...there are lots of high school and college kids that still want work. and some low income people. those folks had been pushed completely out of the employment market in recent years. don't read that deeply into mcdonald's applicants...also - who says every job they are filling is minimum wage?
i agree with your last statement about the corporations though.
but....that money would likely stay in our economy rather than get sent to another country, presumably. so maybe that would help spur more growth and offset the higher prices?
Money can't leave our economy, any money sent outside of the country ultimately comes back.
Anyhow, if the US strictly enforced its immigration laws there would be a large labor shortage. Simply raising wages a bit wouldn't fill it either (most are being paid minimum+ wages anyways), farms, restaurants, etc would have to attract people from other industries. It would have a huge distorting effect on the economy.
Its odd that people think that illegal immigrants "steal" US jobs, while citizens just entering the work force don't. They are both new entries into the job market, if anything the former is preferable as the US hasn't spent money educating, etc them. But this is just a convenient piece of propaganda, what would people do without it? Actually focus their attention on what is really causing the problems: neo-conservativism.
Money can't leave our economy, any money sent outside of the country ultimately comes back.
Anyhow, if the US strictly enforced its immigration laws there would be a large labor shortage. Simply raising wages a bit wouldn't fill it either (most are being paid minimum+ wages anyways), farms, restaurants, etc would have to attract people from other industries. It would have a huge distorting effect on the economy.
Its odd that people think that illegal immigrants "steal" US jobs, while citizens just entering the work force don't. They are both new entries into the job market, if anything the former is preferable as the US hasn't spent money educating, etc them. But this is just a convenient piece of propaganda, what would people do without it? Actually focus their attention on what is really causing the problems: neo-conservativism.
oh i agree with you, largely, on this issue. immigrants aren't stealing jobs. but there is a problem with some employers paying people off the books to save themselves money. it's the only issue with "immigration" i see, and i don't think it's strictly limited to immigrants either.
but there is a problem with some employers paying people off the books to save themselves money. it's the only issue with "immigration" i see, and i don't think it's strictly limited to immigrants either.
Some employers, but by no means all. Usually they just pretend as if the illegals are legal (they supply the employers with fake docs) and as a result are getting paid minimum wage. Unless employers can significantly under-pay them it doesn't make sense to put them "off the books" as they lose the deductions associated with their labor, that is, the illegal labor costs become profit and are taxed as such.
Employers only have so much power here, illegals can always try to work directly for other people via illegal businesses (lawn care, etc) where they will make noticeably more than minimum wage. I've never heard of a case of someone hiring an illegal for 8 hours of work and only paying them $30~$40....its usually $80~$100.
Anyhow, there are cases where people are forced to work for peanuts, but these are relatively uncommon.
Some employers, but by no means all. Usually they just pretend as if the illegals are legal (they supply the employers with fake docs) and as a result are getting paid minimum wage.
Employers only have so much power here, illegals can always try to work directly for other people via illegal businesses (lawn care, etc) where they will make noticeably more than minimum wage. I've never heard of a case of someone hiring an illegal for 8 hours of work and only paying them $30~$40....its usually $80~$100.
Anyhow, there are cases where people are forced to work for peanuts, but these are relatively uncommon.
oh i know of contractors and landscapers that do exactly this. it's not about minimum wage or more...it's about the wage they would pay someone who is legal vs someone who is illegal. landscapers aren't going to get away with paying any human being $7/hr to do landscaping work. but they can probably pay an illegal worker a few bucks less than a legal worker, at least.
Why? If the legal and illegal worker produce the same value why can an employer pay the illegal worker less?
because illegals are more desperate typically, don't have to report their wages and pay taxes on them, are more easily discarded and replaced, etc. i don't know all the reasons - i'm just telling you what i've personally seen here in jersey. my friends' uncle is a general contractor and he picks up illegal workers all the time for a couple days to do various work and pays them less than his normal crew.
Money can't leave our economy, any money sent outside of the country ultimately comes back.
Anyhow, if the US strictly enforced its immigration laws there would be a large labor shortage. Simply raising wages a bit wouldn't fill it either (most are being paid minimum+ wages anyways), farms, restaurants, etc would have to attract people from other industries. It would have a huge distorting effect on the economy.
Its odd that people think that illegal immigrants "steal" US jobs, while citizens just entering the work force don't. They are both new entries into the job market, if anything the former is preferable as the US hasn't spent money educating, etc them. But this is just a convenient piece of propaganda, what would people do without it? Actually focus their attention on what is really causing the problems: neo-conservativism.
total fail.
citizens can't steal jobs.
i can't believe that anyone would say that illegals are "preferable" as first choice to our own citizens.
i don't know where you are from, but that it outrageous.
Why? If the legal and illegal worker produce the same value why can an employer pay the illegal worker less?
illegal workers usually don't have training, certifications, or licenses.
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