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Old 05-31-2011, 08:00 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
31,527 posts, read 70,559,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
I'm not clear on how you figure that "un or under employment" was the topic here.
Ah... that is rather telling then.
Un and under employment is the ONLY issue here.
Aside from full employment for X's and Y's the other problems are matters of degree not absolutes.

If everyone was fully employed in the career positions they went to school for, earning the money and benefits that those jobs should pay...
the rest of the problems and inter-generational conflicts we face would be brushed to the wayside where they belong.
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Old 05-31-2011, 08:04 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
31,527 posts, read 70,559,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname View Post
"If we do not learn from history we are doomed to repeat it's mistakes."
Yes, that is quite profound.
I've never heard this before... so thank you very much for exposing me to this.
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Old 05-31-2011, 08:06 AM
 
5,730 posts, read 9,188,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Ah... that is rather telling then.
Un and under employment is the ONLY issue here.
Aside from full employment for X's and Y's the other problems are matters of degree not absolutes.

If everyone was fully employed in the career positions they went to school for, earning the money and benefits that those jobs should pay...
the rest of the problems and inter-generational conflicts we face would be brushed to the wayside where they belong.
You musta missed the title of the thread...
Quote:
Why do baby boomers look down on Gen Y?
Read my first post in this thread.

And no, the 'other problems' wouldn't be 'brushed aside.'

I'm 'on the cusp' of being an "Xer" and I remember the SAME issues back when (Public perception was) the economy was good, and unemployment was low.

Sorry, your not gonna be able to get away with those cheap shots about 'life' here.
I've lived a bit of it...
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Old 05-31-2011, 08:08 AM
 
5,730 posts, read 9,188,459 times
Reputation: 7989
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Yes, that is quite profound.
I've never heard this before... so thank you very much for exposing me to this.
That's OK. I don't mind going over and over it for those of you who are demonstratively senile!

(I just wish you could learn from it!)

ETA: I see you declined addressing the fact I pointed out your lack of awareness in your quotes...
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Old 05-31-2011, 08:10 AM
 
22,769 posts, read 27,922,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Ah... that is rather telling then.
Un and under employment is the ONLY issue here.
Aside from full employment for X's and Y's the other problems are matters of degree not absolutes.
No, I don't agree.

Supporting our parents' medicare / social security will be a problem. Fannie and Freddie are huge problems for my generation; rather than letting prices fall so young workers can afford something habitable, our future tax liabilities are being utilized to prop up middle and upper class houses that are too expensive for us to afford, even with jobs.

"Full" employment would not solve those issues. Our unaffordable housing market and healthcare overspending were not caused by problems in the labor market.

Quote:
If everyone was fully employed in the career positions they went to school for, earning the money and benefits that those jobs should pay...
the rest of the problems and inter-generational conflicts we face would be brushed to the wayside where they belong.
Unfortunately you might be right, but it is a moot point because unemployment is rather high.

Last edited by le roi; 05-31-2011 at 08:20 AM..
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Old 05-31-2011, 08:24 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
31,527 posts, read 70,559,998 times
Reputation: 37871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname View Post

ETA: I see you declined addressing the fact I pointed out your lack of awareness in your quotes...
what?
---

And so... to recap:
I
reject your premise and you reject mine.
Where does that leave any of us?

One other point...
The use of personal pronouns does not always equate direct address.
This is especially true in forums and runs both ways.

You (I) have ZERO specific idea of who I am (who you are), what my (your) circumstances may be or anyone else...
a broad brush will almost always make a big mess.
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Old 05-31-2011, 08:30 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
31,527 posts, read 70,559,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
Unfortunately you might be right, but it is a moot point because unemployment is rather high.
Thank you for that.

But I absolutely DO NOT see it as a moot point in the least...
I'll stand by that as the underlying premise and the ONLY route to meaningful resolution.
(short of major a reduction in population that is)

Quote:
Supporting our parents' medicare / social security will be a problem.
No one said anything wouldn't be a problem.
But there are problems of 'degree' and there are problems that are 'absolute'.

To repeat and restate my other point ("brushed to the wayside" was a bit crude):

With that full and well paid employment the other inequities (cite any example you may like) that are exacerbated by the unemployment would be minimized by at least that much... and with that (I contend) most could be "tweaked" toward something resembling fixed.

And that... brings us back to jump: the (lack of) job's issue...
which I have characterized (in the short term at least) as being far more about having too many people who need work
than it is about having enough jobs that actually need doing.
---

A sort of related curiosity I have:
How do Gen X and Gen Y people (generally) perceive the illegal immigrant issue?

Last edited by MrRational; 05-31-2011 at 09:06 AM..
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Old 05-31-2011, 09:35 AM
 
22,769 posts, read 27,922,749 times
Reputation: 14617
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Thank you for that.

But I absolutely DO NOT see it as a moot point in the least...
I'll stand by that as the underlying premise and the ONLY route to meaningful resolution.
(short of major a reduction in population that is)
I don't see full employment as a path, but rather as a destination.

So it isn't like I think it is "irrelevant", but rather I think it is an "Obama-ism". That is to say, a promise of some improved future, without any clear roadmap of how to get there.

Quote:
No one said anything wouldn't be a problem.
But there are problems of 'degree' and there are problems that are 'absolute'.

To repeat and restate my other point ("brushed to the wayside" was a bit crude):

With that full and well paid employment the other inequities (cite any example you may like) that are exacerbated by the unemployment would be minimized by at least that much... and with that (I contend) most could be "tweaked" toward something resembling fixed.
We're already far down our current path of printing money to support financial institutions, select unionized manufacturing, and people or institutions who are too heavily exposed to risk.

IMO this is all malinvestment, which ultimately distorts the labor market, leading to the misallocation of labor and education, which creates unemployment.

Quote:
And that... brings us back to jump: the (lack of) job's issue...
which I have characterized (in the short term at least) as being far more about having too many people who need work
than it is about having enough jobs that actually need doing.
---
I view our labor problem as a result of the distortions we've built into our tax structure, subsidies, bailouts, regulations, et cetera.

The "housing bubble", for example, trained a generation of construction workers who weren't needed, real estate agents who weren't needed, and mortgage brokers and financiers who weren't needed.

Meanwhile we have a shortage of highly skilled manufacturing workers, nurses, and doctors. I go to the doctor and I have to see a P.A., because we don't have enough doctors to go around. It may be circumstantial, but it bothers me to see that boomer developers with an impenetrable wall of LLC's can shift assets and liabilities to suit their whims, declaring bankruptcy and magically reappearing as a millionaire -- while student doctors must incur 6-figures of nondischargable debt just to get started in a profession that is crucially important.

Quote:
How do Gen X and Gen Y people (generally) perceive the illegal immigrant issue?
I think that depends on location. I get the impression that there are a lot of liberal people in the northeast and west coast who see illegal immigrants as victims of something -- but I shouldn't speak for others. Personally I think we should:
a) enforce the law by deporting anyone who is here illegally
b) enforce law by tightening the borders on future illegal immigrants
c) relax immigration laws by making it much easier for skilled, educated foreigners to move here.
(edited) d) modify the constitutional language guaranteeing citizenship to people born in the US.

Last edited by le roi; 05-31-2011 at 10:23 AM..
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Old 05-31-2011, 10:15 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
31,527 posts, read 70,559,998 times
Reputation: 37871
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
I don't see full employment as a path, but rather as a destination.
I view our labor problem as a result of the distortions we've built into our tax structure, subsidies, bailouts, regulations, et cetera.
And?
Not intending to be snarky here (truly) but no matter how eloquently or even accurately you or anyone else
might describe your observations and interpretations of the how and why of the situation as it exists...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
(from post #10) I'm not voicing any answers here because frankly I don't have any and also to be frank I don't need any
(aside from what I'll do and am doing to help my own two Y's)... this (critique of the OP's whine) is intended more like a line judge calling out of bounds and keeping you in and focused on the actual game ... Keep your eye on the ball.
Can any of that eloquence be turned toward solutions?
Rhetoric abounds... but specific, meaningful, achievable solutions? Not so much.

The closest I've seen to one in this thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
(from post 15) What Generation Y needs to learn to do is to vote.
If 70% of Generation Y would start voting the politicians would have to start taking them seriously.
Anyone?
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Old 05-31-2011, 10:25 AM
 
22,769 posts, read 27,922,749 times
Reputation: 14617
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
And?
Not intending to be snarky here (truly) but no matter how eloquently or even accurately you or anyone else
might describe your observations and interpretations of the how and why of the situation as it exists...

Can any of that eloquence be turned toward solutions?
Depends on what you mean.

Can I come up with a set of policies that I believe will solve these problems? Yes.

Do I have the influence needed to actually implement new policies? It's debatable, but I think not.

Quote:
Rhetoric abounds... but specific, meaningful, achievable solutions? Not so much.

The closest I've seen to one in this thread:


Anyone?
In order to move toward a solution, it will take more than just "getting out and voting." Generally speaking Gen Y'ers don't even know how to vote for the things that are good for us. Obama is screwing young people now, and Bush before him was screwing young people too.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your perspective seems contradictory. On one hand you argue that we more or less "should not discuss it," while on the other hand arguing that we should be voting. In my mind the two go hand-in-hand. Political and economic discussion helps people distinguish their ass from a hole in the ground.
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