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Take a look at the most free market economy currently in existence (rated the freest market for the past 17 years) - Hong Kong.
Unemployment is 4%, It has a third of the public debt as USA (in terms of % of GDP) and it has maintained these numbers while rivaling net US economic growth.
in short - a freer economy led to the same growth with a third of the debt and less than half of the unemployment.
Along with strong publicly funded health care, unemployment insurance, mandatory pension funds, over 650 employee unions, public employee/employer matching services (and counseling, resume help, centers to provide for the unemployed), heavily subsidized education, negligible military spending, and strong public transit.
So it might be a little misleading to compare Hong Kong to the US just on the minimum wage (which is dead wrong anyways), while ignoring all the other public sector contributions to the work force. Besides being an area of just 426 square miles, and support it received while a colony of Britain and now part of China.
Along with strong publicly funded health care, unemployment insurance, mandatory pension funds, over 650 employee unions, public employee/employer matching services (and counseling, resume help, centers to provide for the unemployed), heavily subsidized education, negligible military spending, and strong public transit.
So it might be a little misleading to compare Hong Kong to the US just on the minimum wage (which is dead wrong anyways), while ignoring all the other public sector contributions to the work force. Besides being an area of just 426 square miles, and support it received while a colony of Britain and now part of China.
Hong Kong absolutely is NOT a pure free market, however it is much less regulated than the United States, and the economy is performing much more favorably, and has for years now. Do you agree with this?
The greater the economic freedom, the greater the growth in per capita GDP. This is a naturally occurring phenomenon. How can we in good conscience view this data and still support greater financial regulations?
Hong Kong absolutely is NOT a pure free market, however it is much less regulated than the United States, and the economy is performing much more favorably, and has for years now. Do you agree with this?
The greater the economic freedom, the greater the growth in per capita GDP. This is a naturally occurring phenomenon. How can we in good conscience view this data and still support greater financial regulations?
There are many very basic flaws hypothesis, flaws no one with a basic level of economics understanding, understanding of the words used, or ability in mathematics should make.
If you take a look at the graph, the countries are not indexed. If you look a bit closer, the ones labeled as "Asia" have several with higher freedom scores but top out at around $26-27,000 per capita. The highest Asian dot on the income marker is about the 6th on the "most free" axis.
The European and American country designation tops out near $35,000 with a rough count of 8 dots that exceed even the highest Asian per capita income. If you look at the "Most Free" Asian country on the graph it is surpassed in income by at least 12 other dots, Asian and European/American.
You have read the the graph incorrectly that you posted to back up your argument.
The graph is also 10 years out of date. Using it to shore up arguments about the current economy is silly.
Economic freedom has no standard definition, ask 30 people you get 30 different numbers.
You can't quantify things like laws, regulations, rights, social or political structures objectively.
Taking the economic freedom number, gathered from many different subjective data sources (hopefully including regulations) to make a statement about just regulationsis a fallacy.
Asking how people can let this happen in good conscience is an appeal to emotion, another fallacy.
Using Hong Kong as an example to eliminate the US minimum wage (in terms of economic freedom) is one of the weirdest arguments I have ever seen in my entire life. Besides the myriad of differences in all areas between the two countries, they both have a minimum wage.
There are many very basic flaws hypothesis, flaws no one with a basic level of economics understanding, understanding of the words used, or ability in mathematics should make.
If you take a look at the graph, the countries are not indexed. If you look a bit closer, the ones labeled as "Asia" have several with higher freedom scores but top out at around $26-27,000 per capita. The highest Asian dot on the income marker is about the 6th on the "most free" axis.
The European and American country designation tops out near $35,000 with a rough count of 8 dots that exceed even the highest Asian per capita income. If you look at the "Most Free" Asian country on the graph it is surpassed in income by at least 12 other dots, Asian and European/American.
You have read the the graph incorrectly that you posted to back up your argument.
The graph is also 10 years out of date. Using it to shore up arguments about the current economy is silly.
Economic freedom has no standard definition, ask 30 people you get 30 different numbers.
You can't quantify things like laws, regulations, rights, social or political structures objectively.
Taking the economic freedom number, gathered from many different subjective data sources (hopefully including regulations) to make a statement about just regulationsis a fallacy.
Asking how people can let this happen in good conscience is an appeal to emotion, another fallacy.
Did you read the source data behind the graph? Your criticisms are addressed in it. And the same trends hold true for the last decade as well. If you want to ignore existing data on free market economics then go right ahead, but don't claim you have a logical or rational basis for that.
If you dispute the data, then please show me actual facts which back up what you say. I have posted facts many times on this thread and you have yet to give more than an opinion. How can I take you seriously? When you bash a study without bothering to even read the method of data collection (your response makes it obvious that you did not do so), how can I respect your viewpoint?
I for one, might consider actually employing Americans instead of only hiring foreigners.
Quite frankly, I think that you and your consorts should be tried for treason. It's just disgusting that this is allowed to go on when legal citizens are suffering so much in this economy.
I lost a job I was SLATED for becuase the slime thought the same as you and wanted to hire an illegal for a few bucks less then they would have to pay a college graduate. You people make me sick.
In fact, I'm so desperate for a job (given the student loan debts I have no accued) that I would have taken the position for what they were going to pay the illegal, but I wasn't even asked. It was assumed that because I was a college graduate I would have demanded more money. It would have been NICE, seeing is how I am educated and skilled. But still I would have accepted because I have loans to pay back.
Quite frankly, I think that you and your consorts should be tried for treason. It's just disgusting that this is allowed to go on when legal citizens are suffering so much in this economy.
I lost a job I was SLATED for becuase the slime thought the same as you and wanted to hire an illegal for a few bucks less then they would have to pay a college graduate. You people make me sick.
In fact, I'm so desperate for a job (given the student loan debts I have no accued) that I would have taken the position for what they were going to pay the illegal, but I wasn't even asked. It was assumed that because I was a college graduate I would have demanded more money. It would have been NICE, seeing is how I am educated and skilled. But still I would have accepted because I have loans to pay back.
Did you see John Stossel's show last night about how college is a scam that people get sucked into. Spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on something that isnt even going to help them. I actually didnt watch it myself but i was curious. What degree did you get that an illegal immigrant could do your job? Maybe you should have majored in something else.
Did you see John Stossel's show last night about how college is a scam that people get sucked into. Spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on something that isnt even going to help them. I actually didnt watch it myself but i was curious. What degree did you get that an illegal immigrant could do your job? Maybe you should have majored in something else.
I didn't see that. I took for granted what I was told my entire life, that college was the way to a decent life. I chose culinary school, because number one I love cooking, and secondly because there are so many jobs one could get cooking.
What happened was I was doing my externship at a restaurant called the Wild Pear (if anyone cares). I was told upfront that there was a job at the end of it, so I gave not only 100, but 150 %. I did everything right as I was told on many occasions how fast I was, efficient, etc.
Then a few days before my externship was up, I asked one of the owners when I would be starting and she said there wasn't even a position available !
And THIS was after I had overheard the other owner asking the Mexican dishwasher if she could do prep (MY job) as well as the dishes.
So you can put two and two together hopefully.
I feel like this "job" was merely the carrot and the stick to get as much free labor out of me as possible. And I find it unethical AND deplorable.
Hong Kong absolutely is NOT a pure free market, however it is much less regulated than the United States, and the economy is performing much more favorably, and has for years now. Do you agree with this?
Also, lets not forget that Hong Kong has changed since reunification with the People's Republic of China. Hong Kong used to be a manufacturing hub (e.g. Made in Hong Kong) but its manufacturing base has been transferred to the mainland.
Hong Kong has become a financial center - to compare it to the United States is comparing apples to zebras. If you want a true comparison, try comparing Hong Kong to either London or New York.
Quote:
The greater the economic freedom, the greater the growth in per capita GDP. This is a naturally occurring phenomenon. How can we in good conscience view this data and still support greater financial regulations?
When examined closely, your own examples don't bear out your assumptions.
Hong Kong absolutely is NOT a pure free market, however it is much less regulated than the United States, and the economy is performing much more favorably, and has for years now. Do you agree with this?
I would dispute that Hong Kong is much less regulated than the US. Maybe somewhat less regulated, and it depends on what you're looking at.
The bigger reason why real world studies often contradict classical economic theory is that classical theory assumes that people are rational and always try to do what's in their best interest, to the extent they know it. But in reality people are frequently irrational, and often do things that are clearly contrary to their best interest.
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