U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-10-2011, 04:29 PM
 
19,346 posts, read 16,976,749 times
Reputation: 7517

Advertisements

The thing I like most about math is that as long as you only work on one side of the equation, you can make ruby slippers(or silver actually) out of thin air.

With governments around the world being in debt, along with most of the populace, can't we have some good news for a change? Shouldn't there be some people who are really sitting pretty? To whom is all this money owed? They don't have enough either? Just a little personal piece or something about the rich, but apparently faceless, people whom are owed these trillions. Just a few photos of deep sea fishing on their yachts would say "hey, its not all bad."

I mean what's the deal here? It reminds me of this. We always needed affordable housing, but when we finally got it, it was no good either.


The Affordable Housing Network

Affordable Housing | Low Income Housing | PublicHousing.com

Eureka! We finally have it!!!


'Double-Dip' in Housing Prices Even Worse Than Expected

News Headlines (http://www.cnbc.com/id/43222783/Double_Dip_in_Housing_Prices_Even_Worse_Than_Expec ted - broken link)

But that should be better than expected for the AHN shouldn't it?


You see what this country really needs is :

A. Rising home values.
AND
B. Affordable housing




Just a little thought provoker about this "debt crisis".
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-10-2011, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 20,077,672 times
Reputation: 15724
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
With governments around the world being in debt, along with most of the populace, can't we have some good news for a change? Shouldn't there be some people who are really sitting pretty? To whom is all this money owed? They don't have enough either? Just a little personal piece or something about the rich, but apparently faceless, people whom are owed these trillions. Just a few photos of deep sea fishing on their yachts would say "hey, its not all bad."
Oh so you want to see the rich piloting their yachts around the cove so you can feel all fuzzy-warm in some pitiful delusion about how safe the world is for the majority of its people?? Surely you are being facetious???
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2011, 05:11 PM
 
19,346 posts, read 16,976,749 times
Reputation: 7517
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
Oh so you want to see the rich piloting their yachts around the cove so you can feel all fuzzy-warm in some pitiful delusion about how safe the world is for the majority of its people?? Surely you are being facetious???
In more ways than one.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2011, 04:35 PM
 
2,515 posts, read 1,822,437 times
Reputation: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post

You see what this country really needs is :

A. Rising home values.
AND
B. Affordable housing




Just a little thought provoker about this "debt crisis".
Hmm 4X on the minimum wage. That gets you both.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2011, 05:18 PM
 
19,346 posts, read 16,976,749 times
Reputation: 7517
Quote:
Originally Posted by newonecoming2 View Post
Hmm 4X on the minimum wage. That gets you both.
I tend to think that it would not. It tends to be mutually exclusive. Its a paradox.

Also ridiculous is the concept of debt without knowing the nature of debt. The debt of a dead beat is worthless. The debt of a trusted entity is liquidity and so on. The media makes it seem as if all there is is debt when all accounts must lead to zero. We could have quadrillions of debt and it would not mean a thing since the world simply owes itself. Its the nature of the debt that gives any meaning to the topic. And what is a fact is not 1 out of 50 Americans seem to know the nature of the outstanding debts.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2011, 06:05 PM
 
2,515 posts, read 1,822,437 times
Reputation: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
I tend to think that it would not. It tends to be mutually exclusive. Its a paradox.
Normally what you say is true and long term it is always true. But in the short term we have an over supply of houses and we are building an over supply of rentals. So if you get full employment at this time and good solid wage price inflation enough to start the prices of houses going up instead of down You’ve got too many houses and to many rental. Relatively low prices in both, affordable housing and raising house prices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post


Also ridiculous is the concept of debt without knowing the nature of debt. The debt of a dead beat is worthless.
We are a paper dragon at this point in time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
The debt of a trusted entity is liquidity and so on.
The paper money in your pocket is part of the national debt. The coins in your pocket are not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
The media makes it seem as if all there is is debt when all accounts must lead to zero. We could have quadrillions of debt and it would not mean a thing since the world simply owes itself. Its the nature of the debt that gives any meaning to the topic. And what is a fact is not 1 out of 50 Americans seem to know the nature of the outstanding debts.
I don’t know as much about it as I would like but I probably know more than most. Or at least 1/2.


another paradox is deflation and a growing economy.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2011, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,661 posts, read 78,550,415 times
Reputation: 36332
What's really happening is that the rest of the world is beginning to take a share of the global wealth, leaving less for us.

America's per-capita GDP has grownm by only 4% per year in the past 15 years. 122 countries have done better than that, and only 80 have done worse. 25 countries have grown more than twice as fast as the US, including Iran and Venezuela.

List of countries by GDP growth 1990 (scroll down to bottom chart.)

So while rich Americans are grabbing most of this country's share of global wealth, there are also a billion others out there who are helping themselves to what Americans have traditionally thought of as our entitlement, and moving of their grass-and-mud huts and buying devices.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2011, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Ohio
22,798 posts, read 15,982,942 times
Reputation: 19283
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
So while rich Americans are grabbing most of this country's share of global wealth, there are also a billion others out there who are helping themselves to what Americans have traditionally thought of as our entitlement, and moving of their grass-and-mud huts and buying devices.
Sokath, his eyes opened wide!

At least someone else gets it.

There's a major transfer of wealth taking place. This would have occurred naturally decades ago if the US had not interfered.

Unfortunately, the US interfered and because it did, the results will be traumatic for many Americans.

Since there is no way to prevent it, the best thing is for [the American] people to just learn how to deal with it, by doing less with less.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2011, 10:08 AM
 
19,346 posts, read 16,976,749 times
Reputation: 7517
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
What's really happening is that the rest of the world is beginning to take a share of the global wealth, leaving less for us.
Hi jtur88,

That just isn't true. The rest of the world does not simply just take resources in a zero sum game of economics. They are also a global work force. It is only true to some extent in certain raw materials. You also seem to be leaving out the huge change in wealth distribution in this country. So I do not believe this is correct in any way.

Quote:
America's per-capita GDP has grownm by only 4% per year in the past 15 years. 122 countries have done better than that, and only 80 have done worse. 25 countries have grown more than twice as fast as the US, including Iran and Venezuela.

List of countries by GDP growth 1990 (scroll down to bottom chart.)

So while rich Americans are grabbing most of this country's share of global wealth, there are also a billion others out there who are helping themselves to what Americans have traditionally thought of as our entitlement, and moving of their grass-and-mud huts and buying devices.
What does that number really mean? How much of a percentage does the Internet represent? How much growth does a mobile device represent. Those are simply nominal measures. What can be measured is the current wealth distribution.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2011, 10:32 AM
 
19,346 posts, read 16,976,749 times
Reputation: 7517
Looks like the media cliches that are posted seem to be winning once again. Inflation, deflation, American share of the wealth, debt to GDP and the whole rotten stinking mess mean nothing. A very simple example of government issued debt in a primative society works like this.

A) there is no money
B) new government pays out IOUs to build roads.
C) This creates liquidity because neighbor A trusts government IOUs from neighbor B who built the roads.
D) Government debt becomes defacto currency.
E) To reduce inflation, government taxes some of the notes in.
F) To prevent deflation, the government would suspend this tax.

We have the same system except that we have a banking system along side it which issues its own currency in a way they retains the same nature as government currency, aka fractional reserves. Americans are trained to prefer, and government encourages that the best way to stop deflation is for people to borrow money from banks at interest. The three problems with this is that banks do not want to loan to people who cannot pay back, those who could would be lunatics to borrow money in bad economic times, and banks add no value in their speculations.

This is preferred over the so called deficit problem. We need a huge deficit to replace all the bank loans that no longer circulate as currency. So instead of QE to lower interest rates to encourage more loans and pushing on a string, we simply need tax holidays. Few seem to understand this because most people think government debt isn't the money supply. If you don't like to increase sovereign debt to foreign countries, then force them to float their currency or slap on a tariff if they continue their merchantilism. For those who would scream INFLATION, its simple. Raise the interest rates. You know why it will not be done I hope. Its because it would shift wealth away from the finance industry that they think is justly stolen through the money supply volatility they created.

Along with the price of fuel, the problem in the US is that you are in a Bolshevik, financially controlled regime.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top