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Old 08-29-2011, 04:13 AM
 
12,869 posts, read 13,676,562 times
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if it isn't sustainable, it will crash anyway:

mish had an interesting article on greek debt. Once again the bond markets have spoken, and once again the message is the same: default. Greek two-year bonds are near 44%, having touched as high as 46%. The interest rate on 1-year Greek government debt is a stunning 59.8%.

ALMOST 60% INTEREST!

Greece Not Saved

Supposedly "Greece was Saved" on that blue circle when yet another bailout (throwing more good money after bad) was approved.

The deal unraveled for numerous reasons but demands by Finland for collateral are at or near the top of the list. Austria, Slovakia, and the Netherlands now want collateral as well.

Under great pressure from Germany, the EU, and IMF, Finland allegedly dropped those demands. It was a lie. Finland did not drop demands for collateral, and that shows you the effect of multiple veto points where such decisions must be unanimous or they fall apart.

the IMF is just trying to get more taxpayer money thrown at an untenable situation, with an eventual eurozone default anyway.

on the home front, mish also has an interesting article on obama's new policy:

Obama Seeks Holy Grail of Housing, Proverbial Free Lunch, Gain With No Pain; It's Another Bank Bailout in Disguise:

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogsp...f-housing.html

as denninger pointed out, what is the eventual outcome of all this?- even as we take on MORE debt:

What should be done is to impose the corporate death penalty on those institutions that cannot cover their own debt loads. We should force the bad debt into the open and default it. We must return to a sustainable level of public and private debt, and in the United States that's about half of what's outstanding right now.

Pretending that we can "grow" out of this is a lie. We cannot. To do so we would need to double GDP over the next decade, and yet do so without taking on one penny of additional debt anywhere in the system. That amounts to 7% growth each and every year for the next ten, with zero additional debt. That exceeds any long-run GDP growth the United States has experienced on a debt-adjusted basis at any point in the modern era and as such is simply not going to happen.

Last edited by floridasandy; 08-29-2011 at 04:34 AM..
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:20 AM
 
5,409 posts, read 10,327,305 times
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Not THAT hard to figure out . . .

STOP paying the Interest.

It will kill the banks, but the problems go away.

Sandy, once you do the math, any interest above growth leads to collapse in the end anyway.

Zero Growth (pretty much our real condition, anyway) = Zero Interest.

So much for "Wealth without Work" for the Upper End.

[Note to Bankers -- Get a Real Job.]
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:01 AM
 
2,515 posts, read 1,818,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post

The lot of you need to break down and invest in copy of Black's Law Dictionary. It is an indispensable aid. There is a vast difference between loans and securities. The great majority of you have committed a faux pas by conflating loans and securities into the generic term "debt."

All of you overlook extremely critical facts. Argentina, USSR/Russia, Greece, et al and Iceland owed loans. That is money they borrowed from another bank.

The US does not have any loan debt. It has securities debts. The US is not similarly situated with Iceland, Greece, Russia, Argentina, Portugal et al.

Learn and understand the differences, especially the legal differences (that's where Black's Law Dictionary helps).
The law doesn't make money magically appear out of thin air.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
No kidding. The US situation is nothing like those countries. It is far worse.
A good place to look at is Greece they have the same structural problems with their economy as we do with ours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post



Very good.

You, um, "default" on your, um, "debt" and you just crashed the pension plans of about 42 States, thousands and thousands of borroughs, townships, counties and municipalities, and more than 1,000 companies.

Nothing like slitting your own throat.

Worse than that, you just crashed over 1,000 philanthropic organizations in the US who do everything from provide funding for television programs on PBS, to grants to cities and universities to build art centers, art museums, performance centers and stages, to seeding business start-ups to, to funding shelters for home-haters and grant programs for the poor.
We need more revenue than we have now. Put in place a freeze on government spending and then have a bunch of inflation. That is one way of dealing with the structural problems. You get more in taxes but the dollar value of the debt doesn't go up to match unless it has the principle indexed for inflation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post


When the US has a population of 320,000 and no army then the article will be relevant to the people of the US. Yeah, Economy of Scale, it matters.
An elephant needs to eat a percentage of its body weight every day. If it doesn't get enough to eat it dies. A mouse needs to eat a percentage of its body weight each day. If it doesn't get enough to eat it dies. In somethings economy of scale matters in others it does not.
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Old 08-31-2011, 07:48 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
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The entire concept of requiring the public to pay the debts of private banks is surreal to begin with.
Only in a society brainwashed by corporate owned media would such an idea exist.
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Old 08-31-2011, 04:00 PM
 
1,269 posts, read 3,555,385 times
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Quote:
Iceland gives the world a lesson on international finance
Far from it, it seems. Iceland is selling off a remote chunk of land for £60M that might threaten its sovereignty in due course.

Quote:
A wealthy Chinese businessman's plans to buy part of an Icelandic island may hide hidden ambitions to open up new trade routes.
Quote:
Huang Nubo is not just a poet. He is also one of his country's best-known property developers, a devoted mountaineer, and a Communist Party insider. The official explanation is that his remarkable purchase of a patch of Iceland one quarter the size of Hong Kong is a means of cementing his status as one of China's foremost tourism entrepreneurs.
Map: The new global trading routes?
http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00641/icelandG_641692a.jpg (broken link)
Quote:
There is another explanation, however: that his extravagant acquisition has just as much to do with Beijing's vaulting ambition to dominate international trade by establishing a new trade route from Asia to the West – and that it could, in the process, threaten Iceland's sovereignty.
source: Independent.co.uk

Last edited by dougie86; 08-31-2011 at 04:09 PM.. Reason: cosmetic
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Old 08-31-2011, 05:17 PM
 
5,409 posts, read 10,327,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The entire concept of requiring the public to pay the debts of private banks is surreal to begin with.
Only in a society brainwashed by corporate owned media would such an idea exist.
Ought to print off some monopoly money to pay the banker's bills from the newly formed Bank of U. R. A. Dumb@ss.

Send that to the international bankers demanding money.

And then smile and wave.

And then shut the bank down.

Paper = paper.

Zero = Zero.
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Old 09-02-2011, 08:29 AM
 
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the people at least had a say in what happened in iceland.

here we get nothing.

here is a great piece by william banzai from zero hedge today:

THiS MaCHiNe KiLLS FaSCiSTS...aND THaT ONe KiLLS JoBS | ZeroHedge here is a snippet from the middle

I have many questions, but I am only going to ask one: Why the **** is Holder's bankster loving DOJ harassing a uniquely successful American business like Gibson instead of hammering a mortgage fraudclosure racketeering factory like Bank of you know ****ing who?

Instead of asking Jeff Coremelt and Warren Bathtub for their folksy half assed job ideas on how to emulate China, Inc., obama (my insertion) should be asking what kind of twisted cluster****ing priorities are causing a company like Gibson to get tied up in a web of poorly written red tape and sub-IQ enforcement zealotry. (end)



indeed, it looks like the government is trying to destroy one industry at a time in this country. what made america special-not its government, rather the industries and innovation it achieved.

they have done a lot of damage to the airline industry by making it almost ridiculous to fly anymore, and flying USED to be fun-an adventure even. it's hard to think of even one industry that hasn't been damaged by overregulation and overreaching.

they are even going after lemonade stands now, amish milk producers, and farm families.

it is beyond OUT OF CONTROL.
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Old 09-02-2011, 09:17 AM
 
2,515 posts, read 1,818,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
the people at least had a say in what happened in iceland.

here we get nothing.

here is a great piece by william banzai from zero hedge today:

THiS MaCHiNe KiLLS FaSCiSTS...aND THaT ONe KiLLS JoBS | ZeroHedge here is a snippet from the middle
Do the words expost factos mean anything any more? They are making things illegal after the fact. The constitution is dead. Or it needs to be revived any one here to give it CPR?
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Old 09-07-2011, 08:35 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,623,420 times
Reputation: 5180
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
the people at least had a say in what happened in iceland.

here we get nothing.

here is a great piece by william banzai from zero hedge today:

THiS MaCHiNe KiLLS FaSCiSTS...aND THaT ONe KiLLS JoBS | ZeroHedge here is a snippet from the middle

I have many questions, but I am only going to ask one: Why the **** is Holder's bankster loving DOJ harassing a uniquely successful American business like Gibson instead of hammering a mortgage fraudclosure racketeering factory like Bank of you know ****ing who? Instead of asking Jeff Coremelt and Warren Bathtub for their folksy half assed job ideas on how to emulate China, Inc., obama (my insertion) should be asking what kind of twisted cluster****ing priorities are causing a company like Gibson to get tied up in a web of poorly written red tape and sub-IQ enforcement zealotry. (end)



indeed, it looks like the government is trying to destroy one industry at a time in this country. what made america special-not its government, rather the industries and innovation it achieved.

they have done a lot of damage to the airline industry by making it almost ridiculous to fly anymore, and flying USED to be fun-an adventure even. it's hard to think of even one industry that hasn't been damaged by overregulation and overreaching.

they are even going after lemonade stands now, amish milk producers, and farm families.

it is beyond OUT OF CONTROL.


If you have to ask, you are not paying attention to what they are telling you.

"NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) is a major stepping stone to the New World Order." Henry Kissinger when campaigning for the passage of NAFTA.

"In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all." Strobe Talbot, President Clinton's Deputy Secretary of State, as quoted in Time, July 20th, l992.

"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent." Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets

"For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." - David Rockefeller, Memoirs , 2002

Starting to see a pattern?
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Old 09-07-2011, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 54,134,049 times
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Time for a workd wide Jubalee! All debt canceled. Start over. What physical things you own you own. You keep your house, cars, tv etc. You keep a portion of a business if you own stock. You do not have to pay any loans.

Start over and run without debt. If you want a new TV dig some cash out of the mattress and buy one. Save before you buy.
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