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I don't think being rich is bad, and I don't believe anyone else believes that. The people who do hate the rich, hate the rich for a reason - they flaunt it and continue to devise more ways of stealing from the poor.
Who hates Bill Gates or Warren Buffett or Steve Jobs?
Who hates Wall Street bankers causing our financial crisis?
If you're rich and are constantly involved with the community, giving charity and creating jobs, it doesn't matter what you drive or wear. If you're a douche about it and saying stuff like "do you know who I am" to the waiter, he's gonna spit on your food whether you're rich or poor.
I don't know about you, but I also can't stand the ignorant masses who bought homes that they could not afford, financed everything in their house, over extended themselves on credit cards and home equity lines of credit just as much as I hate the unscrupulous on Wall Street.
Neither one brought the economic crisis on its own.
I don't know about you, but I also can't stand the ignorant masses who bought homes that they could not afford, financed everything in their house, over extended themselves on credit cards and home equity lines of credit just as much as I hate the unscrupulous on Wall Street.
Neither one brought the economic crisis on its own.
Very good points! People do not want to see they are part of the problem. The rich are more visible thus the easier target by politicians to demonize them. It is the same trick politicians have done for ages and fool the unhappy masses. Take care.
The biggest rip off ever, 401ks here is how it works. You start with owning the production base in the richest nation on earth. You then sell your position to the middle class and take the capital and invest in what will be the biggest richest nation in the world next, China. The value of the US economy was its manufacturing base.
I'm not sure how this gibberish is supporting the 401k is a rip off claim. I can invest my 401k in bonds, stable value, domestic stock market, international markets, etc.
Also = the US manufacturing base hasn't gone anywhere, it is huge.
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Originally Posted by newonecoming2
Some people in the US are making money at everyone else's expense. This needs to stop.
How else do you make money? A plumber fixes my sink and makes money at my expense. I order a book on Amazon they make money at my expense. A client pays for our work and when I get my paycheck I've made money at their expense, or the expense of their customers. For everyone making money in the stock market someone else is losing money. The nature of making money is that someone else has an expense.
I'm not sure how this gibberish is supporting the 401k is a rip off claim. I can invest my 401k in bonds, stable value, domestic stock market, international markets, etc.
OK Back in the DAY the options that I was aware of in 401 ks were stocks. That was back in the late '80's. Now things are different. Before the 401k and IRAs retirement was by pension plan as well as personal savings and SS. http://www.bearishnews.com/wp-conten...l-debt-gdp.jpg The debt curve went vertical in 1981. http://blogs.reuters.com/rolfe-winkl...ow-vs-gold.jpg looking at the Dow priced in gold tells a somewhat different story than when you look at it priced in dollars. The owners of stock sold their position into a 15x run in the Dow. The middle class bought into a 15X run in the Dow. China is going industrial. The working capital for this in part came from the selling of stock to the middle class in the US.
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Originally Posted by slackjaw
Also = the US manufacturing base hasn't gone anywhere, it is
It is headed smaller and has been for a very long time.
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Originally Posted by slackjaw
How else do you make money? A plumber fixes my sink and makes money at my expense.
If the plumber comes and puts chewing gum on a leak then he has made money at your expense. If he dose quality work then you are both better off.
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Originally Posted by slackjaw
I order a book on Amazon they make money at my expense. A client pays for our work and when I get my paycheck I've made money at their expense, or the expense of their customers. For everyone making money in the stock market someone else is losing money. The nature of making money is that someone else has an expense.
If you get value for your money then haven't been ripped off. Most people with money look at labor as an expense. Labor is an investment in the economy. Being productive is not making money at someone else's expense. Borrowing money and loaning it to someone that has bought loans written to people that can't repay them is making money at everyone's expense.
OK Back in the DAY the options that I was aware of in 401 ks were stocks. That was back in the late '80's. Now things are different.
Then you were unaware, which doesn't make your perception true. 401ks have offered bond and stable value funds since inception, don't try to cover up your incorrect claims by more incorrect claims. Either way you are saying 401ks "are
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It is headed smaller and has been for a very long time.
No, it isn't. You are probably confusing manufacturing employment with production/output. If you draw all your opinions on false information then it doesn't surprise me you are constantly in here chanting about silly things like $30/hour min wage.
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If he dose quality work then you are both better off.If you get value for your money then haven't been ripped off. Most people with money look at labor as an expense. Labor is an investment in the economy. Being productive is not making money at someone else's expense.
Being better off has nothing to do with whether it was at someone's expense, nor does being ripped off. If I have to pay money to have a product or service then it is at my expense, regardless of whether it was a profitable venture.
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Borrowing money and loaning it to someone that has bought loans written to people that can't repay them is making money at everyone's expense.
Then you were unaware, which doesn't make your perception true. 401ks have offered bond and stable value funds since inception, don't try to cover up your incorrect claims by more incorrect claims.
The options that were presented to my were different kinds of stock. This is my personal experience. This is anecdotal evidence of what was done. I am say what I saw. I was unaware of what the regulations were what was offered to me were different kinds of stocks. Also the same whit my friends. This is what people were doing.
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Originally Posted by slackjaw
Either way you are saying 401ks "are
No, it isn't.
% GDP. Also go to the hardware store how much says made in the USA? How much says made in China?
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Originally Posted by slackjaw
You are probably confusing manufacturing employment with production/output. If you draw all your opinions on false information then it doesn't surprise me you are constantly in here chanting about silly things like $30/hour min wage.
Ya inflation to get the economy going is really silly. The fed is trying and failing at it, Japan has been trying and failing at it for more than 20 years really silly. We are in a liquidity trap. No amount of new money being loaned out by the fed is going to get the economy going. QE1&2 weren't enough QE3 wont be if it is used to try and get the banks loaning out more money.
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Originally Posted by slackjaw
Being better off has nothing to do with whether it was at someone's expense,
If someone sells you something of no value then he has made money and you got nothing of value in return. He has made money at your expense. If someone sells you something of real value at a fair market price then we hasn't made money at your expense because the value of your money was retained by you in what you got from him.
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Originally Posted by slackjaw
nor does being ripped off. If I have to pay money to have a product or service then it is at my expense, regardless of whether it was a profitable venture.
We have different definitions of words. It is wrong to make money in a way that makes everyone poorer. There is nothing wrong at all in making money in a way that enriches everyone.
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Originally Posted by slackjaw
Correct.
I don't think that we are in agreement here. If you make a business deal between you and someone else that causes mass unemployment in the nation then this is wrong. The same if a group of people make the same kinds of deals that taken in aggregate accomplish the same thing.
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Originally Posted by slackjaw
So is selling items at a garage sale.
When I say “at my expense” I am saying “getting ripped off”. That is the meaning of my words. When you are saying at my expense you are referring to parting with your money. I am saying it with the added meaning of not getting anything of value in return for your money. Also if you make money in a way that damages everyone's wealth then this is at their expense.
The options that were presented to my were different kinds of stock. This is my personal experience. This is anecdotal evidence of what was done.
Again, your personal experience with 401ks 25 years ago does not support your position that they are a ripoff.
Lets agree that today the average 401k offers stable value funds, bond funds stock funds, and blend funds like target date retirement funds, okay? Would you agree? So now you explain how a 401k is a ripoff.
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Originally Posted by newonecoming2
We have different definitions of words. It is wrong to make money in a way that makes everyone poorer.
I disagree. What does a Playstation do? People don't really need it, but they spend their money to have it. They become poorer. Is Sony evil?
I must be differant than you all. I don't place my retirement funds in instuments that are supposedly safe. I prefer the market and over time the market is right. I don't plan on retiring for the next 30 years so having time on your side helps. The deal is that when you invest in a stock and then that stock is lower priced then before you are getting more of that stock. Saying that, most stock based products that you can invest in with a 401k, invest in many companies so your eggs are hardly in one basket. You are diversified by keeping all your money in a single segment with a 401K or in my case a 403B. I don't like keeping it in bonds as the pay off is not that great over time. Protection is something that you want when you are retired or close to it. My thought is to keep the percentage of your income in the game at all times. I have always had a minumum of 6% and increased that to where I am at 15% now. My employer gives me an additional 6% so I am saving 21% of my money each year. On years when the market is bad I end up buying more shares of the investment. When things are good I get fewer shares. It averages out in the end.
Again, your personal experience with 401ks 25 years ago does not support your position that they are a ripoff.
Bait and switch. Sell something to someone and then keep the value of it for youeself.
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Originally Posted by slackjaw
Lets agree that today the average 401k offers stable value funds, bond funds stock funds, and blend funds like target date retirement funds, okay? Would you agree? So now you explain how a 401k is a ripoff.
Back in 1980 ish the wealthy few owned most of the stock in America. Because of 401ks the middle class now owns a far higher % of the stock than then. The money that went into the hands of the wealthy few was used to establish manufacturing in China etc. it financed the outsourcing of jobs from America. 401ks were used to get the middle class to pay for having their jobs taken away from them.
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Originally Posted by slackjaw
I disagree. What does a Playstation do? People don't really need it, but they spend their money to have it.
A Playstation provides entertainment. (Entertainment is what I would call an expense.) What is the useful life of a Playstation? What is the cost per hr of entertainment with a play station? How does that compare with other types of entertainment. I haven’t crunched the numbers but I get the impression that a PlayStation is very cheap entertainment.
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Originally Posted by slackjaw
They become poorer. Is Sony evil?
Buying a play station is a relatively good way to spend your entertainment budget if you play video games. It has a lot of bang for the buck.
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