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Old 09-20-2011, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,470 posts, read 18,190,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Wall street is the glue that holds our economy together. How many of those protesters used products by corporations that only exist because of the financial markets? How many of them have private loans/mortgages? How many of them have 401k's?
Holding the economy together? Interesting...since we are experiencing a recession largely created by wall street.

Regardless, your statements are silly. People don't think the financial system is without value, instead they think that the financial system has gotten out of control. If you shrunk the financial system to just the equity markets, commodity markets, and traditional lending it would be dramatically smaller.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:51 PM
 
9,856 posts, read 14,044,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Holding the economy together? Interesting...since we are experiencing a recession largely created by wall street.

Regardless, your statements are silly. People don't think the financial system is without value, instead they think that the financial system has gotten out of control. If you shrunk the financial system to just the equity markets, commodity markets, and traditional lending it would be dramatically smaller.
How did wall street create this recession?

The recession was created by individual people overextending themselves and buying houses beyond what they could really afford. The financial markets responded in kind to the wants and needs of their clients (you and me). Sure, highly leveraged quant traders sped up the decline, but the housing bubble that caused it was caused by you and me buying a 2,400 sqft home with 0% down on a 30 year mortgage when we couldn't afford it.
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,470 posts, read 18,190,386 times
Reputation: 4343
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
The recession was created by individual people overextending themselves and buying houses beyond what they could really afford. The financial markets responded in kind to the wants and needs of their clients (you and me).
umm......are you being serious? The majority of people will always try to overextend themselves given the opportunity...so we should have a recession 100% of the time.

And yes, the financial markets were just going along, they had nothing to do with motivating people to take out loans they couldn't afford...

But seriously, let's ignore all that, what exactly are bankers suppose to be doing? Allocating capital to their most effective use via lending, not allocating capital to anybody that asks nicely. You see, its only the former function that helps the economy. The bankers utterly failed at their jobs....so why not have them cleaning the toilets instead?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
but the housing bubble that caused it was caused by you and me buying a 2,400 sqft home with 0% down on a 30 year mortgage when we couldn't afford it.
No, the housing bubble was caused by the creation of financial products that, at least in the short-term, hid the risks associated with complex mortgage securities that made 0% down, etc loans possible.

Blaming the housing bubble on people because they used 0%, etc loans made available to them makes no sense at all....
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Old 09-20-2011, 03:12 PM
 
9,856 posts, read 14,044,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
umm......are you being serious? The majority of people will always try to overextend themselves given the opportunity...so we should have a recession 100% of the time.

And yes, the financial markets were just going along, they had nothing to do with motivating people to take out loans they couldn't afford...

But seriously, let's ignore all that, what exactly are bankers suppose to be doing? Allocating capital to their most effective use via lending, not allocating capital to anybody that asks nicely. You see, its only the former function that helps the economy. The bankers utterly failed at their jobs....so why not have them cleaning the toilets instead?


No, the housing bubble was caused by the creation of financial products that, at least in the short-term, hid the risks associated with complex mortgage securities that made 0% down, etc loans possible.

Blaming the housing bubble on people because they used 0%, etc loans made available to them makes no sense at all....
As long as you can blame a corporation for personal financial irresponsibility, right?

Bankers serve their customers and give the customer exactly what they want. Blaming the housing bubble on people who overextend themselves fiscally is the ONLY thing that makes sense. A person takes out a mortgage that they cannot afford, fails to pay on that mortgage and suddenly it is the bank's fault? Are you serious?
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Old 09-20-2011, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,470 posts, read 18,190,386 times
Reputation: 4343
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Bankers serve their customers and give the customer exactly what they want.
Again...I have to wonder whether you are serious because this is just rather crazy... Businesses, whether banks or not, don't give their customers "exactly what they want". Do you believe that you can walk into a auto dealer and demand a new car for $2,000 and they will provide you with what you want? Probably not...so why in the world would you think banks operate that way? Businesses have to actually make something on the services they are providing...

If a local business decided to give away free hamburgers every day all day and they collapsed a few months later would you blame the people that took the free hamburgers are the people running the business?

There has always been demand for loans from people with bad credit, low incomes, etc. Why did the bankers wait decades to provide them with "what they want"?
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:16 PM
 
3,770 posts, read 5,899,464 times
Reputation: 3003
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Again...I have to wonder whether you are serious because this is just rather crazy... Businesses, whether banks or not, don't give their customers "exactly what they want". Do you believe that you can walk into a auto dealer and demand a new car for $2,000 and they will provide you with what you want? Probably not...so why in the world would you think banks operate that way? Businesses have to actually make something on the services they are providing...

If a local business decided to give away free hamburgers every day all day and they collapsed a few months later would you blame the people that took the free hamburgers are the people running the business?

There has always been demand for loans from people with bad credit, low incomes, etc. Why did the bankers wait decades to provide them with "what they want"?
well, the banks making the fraudulently underwritten loans sold them because they knew they were worthless. it was a scam. and the housing bubble was a sceme to pump dollars into the economy to make up for jobs shipped overseas. jobs got shipped overseas to profit wall street. the average worker suffers, but wall street, corp management and banks profit
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Ohio
22,798 posts, read 15,930,808 times
Reputation: 19278
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
As long as you can blame a corporation for personal financial irresponsibility, right?
In theory you would be blaming real estate attorneys for malpractice, since they failed to properly advise their clients with respect to the property and the loan and the loan documents.

Of course, maybe the real estate attorneys did properly advise their clients and the clients ignored their advise.

Oh, wait, the overwhelming vast majority of home-buyers were too stupid to to bother consulting with a real estate attorney. Well, I guess blame falls on the home-buyers.
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:56 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 6,625,872 times
Reputation: 3865
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
As long as you can blame a corporation for personal financial irresponsibility, right?

Bankers serve their customers and give the customer exactly what they want. Blaming the housing bubble on people who overextend themselves fiscally is the ONLY thing that makes sense. A person takes out a mortgage that they cannot afford, fails to pay on that mortgage and suddenly it is the bank's fault? Are you serious?
Really?

There were tons of people who could PERFECTLY afford their mortgage at the time of borrowing but who were no longer able to pay later due to losing their jobs to overseas markets.

You need to come up with a more intelligent argument than "they should have known better".
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:38 AM
 
9,856 posts, read 14,044,697 times
Reputation: 5460
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Again...I have to wonder whether you are serious because this is just rather crazy... Businesses, whether banks or not, don't give their customers "exactly what they want". Do you believe that you can walk into a auto dealer and demand a new car for $2,000 and they will provide you with what you want? Probably not...so why in the world would you think banks operate that way? Businesses have to actually make something on the services they are providing...

If a local business decided to give away free hamburgers every day all day and they collapsed a few months later would you blame the people that took the free hamburgers are the people running the business?

There has always been demand for loans from people with bad credit, low incomes, etc. Why did the bankers wait decades to provide them with "what they want"?
I have to wonder if you know anything about the modern business environment.

If a business offers a service or product for a certain price and a person is willing to pay that price, even if it is a bad deal you do not blame the business for offering it! It is almost as if you WANT to eliminate all personal responsibility from people.



Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
Really?

There were tons of people who could PERFECTLY afford their mortgage at the time of borrowing but who were no longer able to pay later due to losing their jobs to overseas markets.

You need to come up with a more intelligent argument than "they should have known better".

Then why didn't those people have backup plans for if they lost their jobs? Why didn't they have savings to rely on? Again - don't blame a bank for a person's poor planning.

talking about intelligence, any intelligent person has 2-3 backup plans in case they lose their job!
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:58 AM
 
3,335 posts, read 2,701,183 times
Reputation: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Wall street is the glue that holds our economy together. How many of those protesters used products by corporations that only exist because of the financial markets? How many of them have private loans/mortgages? How many of them have 401k's?

We rely on wall street for our daily lives and luxuries and when the 1% who are dishonest are showcased in the news, we revolt.

Talk about ignorance...
Ignorance is thinking that only 1 percent are crooks.

Everyday our state dept. does the bidding of wall st. greed. Destroying freedom around the world for temporary gain.

Wake up, if you want to.

Trading chinese crap for freedom is not my idea of happiness.

Wall st. exploits the world for its own, frat boy sell outs....
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