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Old 09-20-2011, 11:38 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,364 posts, read 4,076,453 times
Reputation: 2736

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antlered Chamataka View Post
I'm actually doing very good. Without delving into too much detail, my salary swelled every time I improvised and added a skill. My lows were clearly the instances where the corporation decided to get rid of me with offshoring and low-cost labour.

I'm pretty impressed with my fighting power becoz my peers have got slaughtered and many of them are either unemployed or are moving to China. But that said, given the current environment, everything still hangs by a thread. In a world of changing corporate strategy and increasing globalization/knowledge dilution, improvisation is getting more and more difficult.

The American dream is still there, it just gets tougher by the day.
I must agree with you, the American dream is there as far as I am concerned. As I read from various sources I see that the people that have the least expectations from the government, the more the accomplish. They do not sit around whinning and moping that the government or the president or congress is not providing for them. They get up and work hard, save, keep getting up with they are down and eventually reach their goals.

Granted that some take longer than others but they keep trying and working hard. They do not complain about the middles class being abused or that the rich are so greedy, etc.

Making it does not necessarily mean having a house. Everybody has different expectations in life. Some people do not get a house but they make sure their kids have the education to get one and to them that is the American dream, to struggle and keep working to achieve.

In others words there are two types of people, those that are part of the problem and those that are part of the solution.
The ones that are part of the problem tend to keep whinning and crying and those that are part of the solution simply roll up their sleeves and get to work on their dreams, take care.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:40 AM
 
Location: southwestern USA
1,824 posts, read 1,883,289 times
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Right now the American dream to many people is just to have a job------the idea of upward mobilitly, a suburban utopia, and a prosperous future seems neferious and obsolete to many who have been waylaid the past 4-5 years.

The focal point is now to make sure that you and your family can have enough security to at least make you feel confident that you can pay your bills and maybe go out to eat once a week.

I sense the anxiety, the fear, and the despondency in people on the streets every day. I believe the majority of them believe that their legislators do not have their backs any longer, and have now embarked on a party line battle for idealogy rather than helping their plight.

I hope one day that our nation can again give its citizens the inspiration and spunk needed to feel confident and optimistic about their daily lives. If our legislators and President, havent by now felt the fear and anxiety of Americans, that I think that it is time for the voters to tell Congress what they think in 2012 and make the majority in Congress look for employment themselves.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:41 AM
 
2,409 posts, read 2,786,456 times
Reputation: 2031
Quote:
Originally Posted by drshang View Post
Just because you live 50 years in the past doesn't mean the American dream is "dead." Dreams change, societies change, economies change. This is a dynamic society.

Perhaps the reason you think the American dream is "dead" is because you seem to live a static existence in a dynamic society, and make rude and inflammatory posts to people who have "made it."

That is the POINT!!!!!!!! The guy HASN'T MADE IT! LOL read his post! He's still waiting to hit the jackpot.

Haha I love how people like you love to lie to yourself and call the plundering US economy "dynamic". Yeah it's dynamic alright. Our liberties are being attacked at every turn......groped at the airport, a government bureaucracy telling you what foods and what drugs you can put into your body......they just came out with a report that a drug arrest is made every 19 seconds in the US.....we imprison more people than any other country in the world......how you like that freedumb? We have a government that has been completely bought and paid for by just about every industry that exists.......the military industrial complex, the banks, the huge food giants, they own you, they own the entire US government. The America voter means nothing. These guys have gutted the entire US economy to the tune of $14 trillion in debt, massive trade deficits. We have a crumbling infrastructure and tent cities all over the country. 40+ million Americans are considered living in poverty with 43 million on foodstamps. The highest unemployment rate exists among 18-25 year olds.

I could go on and on...........never before in the history of this country have we faced such dire economic circumstance. Yeah America is real dynamic right now.......circling the drain and headed the way of India, China and other countries where you are either rich or poor.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
6,478 posts, read 6,603,163 times
Reputation: 6978
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer View Post
You know nothing about this country nor do you know what the American draem should consist of. The American dream died 50 years ago. It died along with my grandfather's generation. It died with the full pension, it died with being able to retire at 55, it died with putting your kids through college debt free, it died with owning your home after 30 years, it died with one person working and the other staying home to take care of the family, it died with a 40 hour work week in which dad got off at 5 to come home and throw ball with little Johnny so little Johnny wasn't out doing drugs and having sex, it died with the family actually sitting around the dinner table talking, it died with a sense of community that you actually got to know your neighbors instead of seeing them pull in their garage for a split second before it gets dark, it died with the UNIONS, it died with .......I think you get the point. People like you view the American economy as a casino..........maybe someday you'll hit the jackpot? Yeah keep drinking the koolaid buddy!

See in America we believe that people come first. Profits come second. There used to a time when the worker had power. Their lives and their existence wasn't dictated by a board of directors or shareholders.
Retire at 55? Yes, only to be dead by the time you were 62, maybe 65.

Debt free college? I sincerely doubt it, but in any case kids didn't have their heads filled with useless propaganda that without college they were nobodies. A lot of kids graduated high school (and could even read their diplomas!) with a trade, skilled or unskilled, and not only was there was no shame in it, but you could raise a family on the salary it brought. Why? Because the average tax bite out of a family budget wasn't a strangling 45-55%. it was more like 15% and EVERYONE paid something, unlike today when a full 51% of citizens pay no federal income tax at all. People pulled their own weight and being on the dole was seen as shameful -even by the people getting the checks.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:47 AM
 
2,409 posts, read 2,786,456 times
Reputation: 2031
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
I must agree with you, the American dream is there as far as I am concerned. As I read from various sources I see that the people that have the least expectations from the government, the more the accomplish. They do not sit around whinning and moping that the government or the president or congress is not providing for them. They get up and work hard, save, keep getting up with they are down and eventually reach their goals.

Granted that some take longer than others but they keep trying and working hard. They do not complain about the middles class being abused or that the rich are so greedy, etc.

Making it does not necessarily mean having a house. Everybody has different expectations in life. Some people do not get a house but they make sure their kids have the education to get one and to them that is the American dream, to struggle and keep working to achieve.

In others words there are two types of people, those that are part of the problem and those that are part of the solution.
The ones that are part of the problem tend to keep whinning and crying and those that are part of the solution simply roll up their sleeves and g
et to work on their dreams, take care.
Again you think you understand the American dream but you fail miserably. You bet your bottom dollar the American dream entails owning a home! In fact that is the ENTIRE PREMISE OF AMERICA..........AN OWNERSHIP SOCIETY..........it is OWNING your land, your house, your cars, even your BUSINESS that establishes a free and democratic society. I mean my god how can you not understand the basic underpinnings of a free society. Ownership is what made America strong. Being able to provide for yourself i.e. your food, your clothing, a roof over your head without relying on government or a big monopolistic corporation is the entire premise of America. Look at society now........people are like beat down old dogs who work like slaves for a paycheck. They don't own their cars, they don't own their homes, very few own ANY land or anything valuable wealth producing assets save for stocks and bonds which they have no control over. Americans own nothing when it comes to their way of life. It's all been pushed into the hands of government and mega corporations. The bankers own everything. Kids don't even own their own education anymore..........the banks do!
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:52 AM
 
2,409 posts, read 2,786,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli View Post
Retire at 55? Yes, only to be dead by the time you were 62, maybe 65.

Debt free college? I sincerely doubt it, but in any case kids didn't have their heads filled with useless propaganda that without college they were nobodies. A lot of kids graduated high school (and could even read their diplomas!) with a trade, skilled or unskilled, and not only was there was no shame in it, but you could raise a family on the salary it brought. Why? Because the average tax bite out of a family budget wasn't a strangling 45-55%. it was more like 15% and EVERYONE paid something, unlike today when a full 51% of citizens pay no federal income tax at all. People pulled their own weight and being on the dole was seen as shameful -even by the people getting the checks.

Oh please save me the BS! People lived just as long as they did in the 50's and 60's as they do now. And there was a lot of smoking, drinking to excess and poor eating habits back then. And you're a fool if you think the quality of life is any better nowadays because you live well into yoru 80s. I'd rather retire at 55, spend the next 10 years enjoying that retirement and drop dead at 65 of a heart attack instead of working till I'm 70.......retiring and barely affording my rent/mortage and spending my last 10 years in and out of doctor's offices because of my arthritis, diabetes, yadda yadda yadda. It's all about quality of life buddy! Not statistics.

And you speak half truths about taxes. While individuals might have paid less in taxes during the 50's we saw some of the highest corporate taxes ever.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:04 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,364 posts, read 4,076,453 times
Reputation: 2736
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer View Post
Again you think you understand the American dream but you fail miserably. You bet your bottom dollar the American dream entails owning a home! In fact that is the ENTIRE PREMISE OF AMERICA..........AN OWNERSHIP SOCIETY..........it is OWNING your land, your house, your cars, even your BUSINESS that establishes a free and democratic society. I mean my god how can you not understand the basic underpinnings of a free society. Ownership is what made America strong. Being able to provide for yourself i.e. your food, your clothing, a roof over your head without relying on government or a big monopolistic corporation is the entire premise of America. Look at society now........people are like beat down old dogs who work like slaves for a paycheck. They don't own their cars, they don't own their homes, very few own ANY land or anything valuable wealth producing assets save for stocks and bonds which they have no control over. Americans own nothing when it comes to their way of life. It's all been pushed into the hands of government and mega corporations. The bankers own everything. Kids don't even own their own education anymore..........the banks do!
Calm down, I can see you breaking the keyboard.

The American dream is the freedom to struggle for what you want. Look at the wording in a very cherished document, the Pursuit of Happiness. That exactly what it is Pursuit. Pursuing does not equate to ensured happines, owning a home, or accumulate a certain amount of money.
Working like slave? Not owning a car?
Maybe you need to look at stats of people in the poverty bracket that own cars, houses, have A/C in their homes, how iPods, the latest technology in TV and stereos. Also, see their caloric intake a day. Are we as a nation the fatest because we are starving?
Now, I am not saying there are not poor people in this country. There are and we as a society can find ways to help them but to see doomsday is not the American mentality I see when I read about our ancestors that built this country by pure and sheer will and desire to succeed despite the problems. Actually, without the numerous government programs we now have they struggled and many made it. It is not interesting that the generation of the 40 is called the greatest generation because they faced a depression and a world war? Look at them and many of them simply have this bewildered look when they see whinning an crying about life today. At least that is what I get when I sit down and talk to them. Many of them are WWII vet and many are widows that simply ask "What are they complaining about?" Many of them volunteer at our local Army and VA hospitals now and have expressed the same questions. Go ahead and keep staying witht that attitude. I do not and I follow the same attitude my mom and dad had as immigrants and it has helped me get ahead as best as I can. Take care.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:30 PM
 
2,409 posts, read 2,786,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Calm down, I can see you breaking the keyboard.

The American dream is the freedom to struggle for what you want. Look at the wording in a very cherished document, the Pursuit of Happiness. That exactly what it is Pursuit. Pursuing does not equate to ensured happines, owning a home, or accumulate a certain amount of money.
Working like slave? Not owning a car?
Maybe you need to look at stats of people in the poverty bracket that own cars, houses, have A/C in their homes, how iPods, the latest technology in TV and stereos. Also, see their caloric intake a day. Are we as a nation the fatest because we are starving?
.
So what? We have the wealthiest poor in the world? Your point We HAVE THE RICHEST RICH IN THE WORLD AS WELL! Its relative. Understand?

Im sorry if the American poor aren't poor enough for you......I guess they should all be living in mud huts, taking showers under cattle urine, and eating mudcakes for dinner right?

America isn't about struggling. America is about innovation, making life easier and more rewarding than the generations that came before it. And how is that possible/ Through technology, through innovation, through mechanization. I mean what the hell? Where does this idea come from that in the 21st century where we can produce a car pretty much by machines that we all have to work like dogs for scraps? It's a sickening mindset I see among Americans. THE ENTIRE POINT OF PROGRESS is that we can work less, enjoy life more...........ask yourself why is it we work 40 hours instead of 15 hours? Why is it we work 5 days a week instead of 2 days a week. Is there not plenty of resources the world over, plenty of wealth the world over to where human beings could pretty much be living a COMPLETELY different life. It's because the people a the top don't want it. They control EVERYTHING and they want more power, more wealth for themselves. That is the reality many naive people like you don't understand. Life on planet earth could be COMPLETELY different. And in America it should be completely different. EVERY AMERICAN should own land. Whether they do anything with it or not is up to them. EVERY American should have a stake in the natural resources their country provides. But as long as people like you view life as "struggle" you will continue to live like as a dog......a slave..........a serf...........never opening up your mind to what could be..............
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,011 posts, read 26,893,288 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer View Post
Because Americans shouldn't be relegated to living in the "hood", in a crowded filthy city like New York and call that the American Dream. Sorry but what makes America America is that we DONT THINK people should live like they do in India and China and most other parts of the world. You are EXACTLY what is wrong with this country. You come here and live like a peasant which is amazingly better than you would have lived in your own country's squalor and call that the American dream. Meanwhile America is turning into a country like India because the megarich corporatists are running roughshod over our economy and have bought off our government.

You frankly are the type of foreigner who adds nothing to the value of the AMerican dream whether you are legal or illegal. Instead of paying an American educated engineer or IT person $65-75K a year a corporations can hire a "Foreigner" like yourself for $35K and then that same worker turns around and thinks they are living the American dream. LMAO! It's hilarious actually! Yeah compared to your country $35K probably is the American dream. But our poor aren't relegated to taking showers under cattle urine and living in mud huts either. But I guess they just aren't poor enough for Indian and Chinese standards eh?

Oh and for your information the American dream was never about "hitting jackpot" someday. It was about working hard and living a modest yet very financially secure middle class lifestyle where you could put your kids through college debt free, retire at 55, pay off your house in 30 years, and maybe have a little left over to travel, have a vacation home etc. This nonsense about the American dream meaning everyone and their brother becomes a millionaire is part of the problem. Maybe that is how things are done in India.......hell you dont even have a middle class there. Maybe everyone sits around in India waiting to "hit the jackpot" while the poor get poorer and the rich get richer. That is completely antithetical to what America is/was about. India has 150 million indentured child workers. Go figure!!
Are you drunk?

I was defending the American dream.

And frankly, you have very poor reading comprehension skills. You have assumed a lot of things and you're the kind that makes me laugh hysterically, mate. Good job!
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:47 PM
 
2,409 posts, read 2,786,456 times
Reputation: 2031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antlered Chamataka View Post
Are you drunk?

I was defending the American dream.

And frankly, you have very poor reading comprehension skills. You have assumed a lot of things and you're the kind that makes me laugh hysterically, mate. Good job!

I haven't assumed anything. You came to America. You are from India. You live in NYC in the "hood" as you put it. You have not yet acquired anything that would resemble what most people constitute the American dream so you wait and wonder when your day will come when you will "hit the jackpot". My reading comprehension skills are fine and you fail to understand what the America dream is all about.
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