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Old 09-20-2011, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,011 posts, read 26,901,863 times
Reputation: 11309

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President Bill Clinton: Yes, The American Dream Is Under Assault | Daily Ticker - Yahoo! Finance

I do not agree with good ole' Clinton. He's a great speaker, but what is he talking about?

The American dream is WELL ALIVE in someone like me. I moved to the United States in my mid-20s. My start-up salary wasn't great. But then, I improvised, took a calculated risk and plunged into my American dream, becoz I hated to go back home. I still do

Then, the big financial institution I was working in split my job and sent one half to India (my home) and the other half was given to a guy here (another Indian, at 1/3rd of my salary). Devastated, torn and tattered, I sat confused like Horatio Nelson's exile for three weeks. Took another calculated risk, cleared my interview and landed a six-figure job.

Things were going well, and then the company I was working in posted dismal quarterly earnings (shortly after Lehmann collapsed), and the American segment was earning 1/4th of what the segment in Brazil was earning. I was instructed to train a guy in Brazil to do my activities. I knew what they were up to. I painfully transitioned my job duties to an imbecile who could not speak a fully coherent English sentence.

Then I ran on a cross-country tour, chasing jobs and have been staying employed since, I improvised. And then, as fate would have it, I got back into New York City. And am back in the hood, living my little American dream and hoping to hit jackpot some day.

The American dream is under assault for those who do not improvise. It's like the Aesop's fable of the ant and the grasshopper. Or the cliche'd who moved my cheese where the mouse got too comfortable with the bakery where it was stuck.

So I was thinking..... if a foreigner like me, who had no foundation coming into America, can build my little life from scratch and overtake a lot of people in the career game in terms of position, skill and paycheque, why not those who were born here? If I had that level of roots in this country, I'd have ten million bucks in the bank right now.

So, why is the American dream under assault?
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Old 09-20-2011, 10:11 AM
 
1,592 posts, read 3,119,922 times
Reputation: 2146
Because not everyone is you. More and more regular Americans are getting farther into debt and poverty all the while the job base is shrinking, and the income gap between the haves and have-nots is skyrocketing.
I see what happened to you, it doesn't look like you are doing so spectacular, am I wrong? You lost your good job now you have a job that is not as good? What makes that so special, that's where most everyone else is these days.
I agree many American's problems are their own fault. As one immigrant put it "You Americans spend everything you make, never save a penny, send your kids off to college when they turn 18 and load them up with massive debt." He explained how in his family, every pitched in to help run the family business, they saved dilligently, and the kids lived at home while going to school, and then eventually took over the family business, which resulted in them moving up several steps. Many Americans simply don't know how to manage money any more, and are encouraged at every turn to buy, buy more, and eventually go into debt. Anyways, get back to us when you have "made it", maybe then I'll be impressed.
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Old 09-20-2011, 10:41 AM
 
290 posts, read 907,017 times
Reputation: 225
The income gap is one of the most worrying things. Upward mobility is just becoming more and more difficult, especially with the massive increase in the cost of education and decline of job opportunities.

That's not to say it's impossible. But it just takes significantly more planning, intelligence, and luck. I'm a med student and my mom is a practicing physician--Even with all of the advantages that I've had compared to her, I don't expect to make more money than she does. With inflation, I expect my real income will be significantly lower.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:21 AM
 
29,986 posts, read 39,294,900 times
Reputation: 12792
Clinton launched the assault when he signed NAFTA.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,011 posts, read 26,901,863 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1208 View Post
Because not everyone is you. More and more regular Americans are getting farther into debt and poverty all the while the job base is shrinking, and the income gap between the haves and have-nots is skyrocketing.
I see what happened to you, it doesn't look like you are doing so spectacular, am I wrong? You lost your good job now you have a job that is not as good? What makes that so special, that's where most everyone else is these days.
I agree many American's problems are their own fault. As one immigrant put it "You Americans spend everything you make, never save a penny, send your kids off to college when they turn 18 and load them up with massive debt." He explained how in his family, every pitched in to help run the family business, they saved dilligently, and the kids lived at home while going to school, and then eventually took over the family business, which resulted in them moving up several steps. Many Americans simply don't know how to manage money any more, and are encouraged at every turn to buy, buy more, and eventually go into debt. Anyways, get back to us when you have "made it", maybe then I'll be impressed.
I'm actually doing very good. Without delving into too much detail, my salary swelled every time I improvised and added a skill. My lows were clearly the instances where the corporation decided to get rid of me with offshoring and low-cost labour.

I'm pretty impressed with my fighting power becoz my peers have got slaughtered and many of them are either unemployed or are moving to China. But that said, given the current environment, everything still hangs by a thread. In a world of changing corporate strategy and increasing globalization/knowledge dilution, improvisation is getting more and more difficult.

The American dream is still there, it just gets tougher by the day.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:26 AM
 
2,409 posts, read 2,787,211 times
Reputation: 2031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antlered Chamataka View Post
President Bill Clinton: Yes, The American Dream Is Under Assault | Daily Ticker - Yahoo! Finance

I do not agree with good ole' Clinton. He's a great speaker, but what is he talking about?

The American dream is WELL ALIVE in someone like me. I moved to the United States in my mid-20s. My start-up salary wasn't great. But then, I improvised, took a calculated risk and plunged into my American dream, becoz I hated to go back home. I still do

Then, the big financial institution I was working in split my job and sent one half to India (my home) and the other half was given to a guy here (another Indian, at 1/3rd of my salary). Devastated, torn and tattered, I sat confused like Horatio Nelson's exile for three weeks. Took another calculated risk, cleared my interview and landed a six-figure job.

Things were going well, and then the company I was working in posted dismal quarterly earnings (shortly after Lehmann collapsed), and the American segment was earning 1/4th of what the segment in Brazil was earning. I was instructed to train a guy in Brazil to do my activities. I knew what they were up to. I painfully transitioned my job duties to an imbecile who could not speak a fully coherent English sentence.

Then I ran on a cross-country tour, chasing jobs and have been staying employed since, I improvised. And then, as fate would have it, I got back into New York City. And am back in the hood, living my little American dream and hoping to hit jackpot some day.

The American dream is under assault for those who do not improvise. It's like the Aesop's fable of the ant and the grasshopper. Or the cliche'd who moved my cheese where the mouse got too comfortable with the bakery where it was stuck.

So I was thinking..... if a foreigner like me, who had no foundation coming into America, can build my little life from scratch and overtake a lot of people in the career game in terms of position, skill and paycheque, why not those who were born here? If I had that level of roots in this country, I'd have ten million bucks in the bank right now.

So, why is the American dream under assault?
Because Americans shouldn't be relegated to living in the "hood", in a crowded filthy city like New York and call that the American Dream. Sorry but what makes America America is that we DONT THINK people should live like they do in India and China and most other parts of the world. You are EXACTLY what is wrong with this country. You come here and live like a peasant which is amazingly better than you would have lived in your own country's squalor and call that the American dream. Meanwhile America is turning into a country like India because the megarich corporatists are running roughshod over our economy and have bought off our government.

You frankly are the type of foreigner who adds nothing to the value of the AMerican dream whether you are legal or illegal. Instead of paying an American educated engineer or IT person $65-75K a year a corporations can hire a "Foreigner" like yourself for $35K and then that same worker turns around and thinks they are living the American dream. LMAO! It's hilarious actually! Yeah compared to your country $35K probably is the American dream. But our poor aren't relegated to taking showers under cattle urine and living in mud huts either. But I guess they just aren't poor enough for Indian and Chinese standards eh?

Oh and for your information the American dream was never about "hitting jackpot" someday. It was about working hard and living a modest yet very financially secure middle class lifestyle where you could put your kids through college debt free, retire at 55, pay off your house in 30 years, and maybe have a little left over to travel, have a vacation home etc. This nonsense about the American dream meaning everyone and their brother becomes a millionaire is part of the problem. Maybe that is how things are done in India.......hell you dont even have a middle class there. Maybe everyone sits around in India waiting to "hit the jackpot" while the poor get poorer and the rich get richer. That is completely antithetical to what America is/was about. India has 150 million indentured child workers. Go figure!!
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Seattle
1,369 posts, read 3,049,155 times
Reputation: 1496
The new American dream: putting down others who are more successful than themselves in hope they will feel better.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:33 AM
 
2,409 posts, read 2,787,211 times
Reputation: 2031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antlered Chamataka View Post
I'm actually doing very good. Without delving into too much detail, my salary swelled every time I improvised and added a skill. My lows were clearly the instances where the corporation decided to get rid of me with offshoring and low-cost labour.

I'm pretty impressed with my fighting power becoz my peers have got slaughtered and many of them are either unemployed or are moving to China. But that said, given the current environment, everything still hangs by a thread. In a world of changing corporate strategy and increasing globalization/knowledge dilution, improvisation is getting more and more difficult.

The American dream is still there, it just gets tougher by the day.
You know nothing about this country nor do you know what the American draem should consist of. The American dream died 50 years ago. It died along with my grandfather's generation. It died with the full pension, it died with being able to retire at 55, it died with putting your kids through college debt free, it died with owning your home after 30 years, it died with one person working and the other staying home to take care of the family, it died with a 40 hour work week in which dad got off at 5 to come home and throw ball with little Johnny so little Johnny wasn't out doing drugs and having sex, it died with the family actually sitting around the dinner table talking, it died with a sense of community that you actually got to know your neighbors instead of seeing them pull in their garage for a split second before it gets dark, it died with the UNIONS, it died with .......I think you get the point. People like you view the American economy as a casino..........maybe someday you'll hit the jackpot? Yeah keep drinking the koolaid buddy!

See in America we believe that people come first. Profits come second. There used to a time when the worker had power. Their lives and their existence wasn't dictated by a board of directors or shareholders.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
6,478 posts, read 6,605,394 times
Reputation: 6978
A Green Bay Packers Question

Last year, after the Packers/Bills game, Buffalo released quarterback Trent Edwards.

During the Packers/Eagles game, the Packers injured Philadelphia quarterback Kevin Kolb. Philadelphia then had to play backup quarterback Michael Vick.

During a playoff game against the Eagles, the Packers injured Michael Vick and another backup was needed.

After the Packers/Cowboys game, Dallas fired Wade Phillips and most of his staff.

After the Packers/Vikings game, Minnesota fired Brad Childress and most of his staff.

Four weeks after losing to the Packers, the 49er's coach Mike Singletary and most of his staff were fired and replaced.

During the Bears Playoff game, the Packers injured Jay Cutler and backup Todd Collins forcing the Bears to go with 3rd string quarterback Caleb Hanie.

Question: Is it just me, or did the Packers create more jobs than Obama did last year?
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Seattle
1,369 posts, read 3,049,155 times
Reputation: 1496
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer View Post
You know nothing about this country nor do you know what the American draem should consist of. The American dream died 50 years ago. It died along with my grandfather's generation. It died with the full pension, it died with being able to retire at 55, it died with putting your kids through college debt free, it died with owning your home after 30 years, it died with one person working and the other staying home to take care of the family, it died with a 40 hour work week in which dad got off at 5 to come home and throw ball with little Johnny so little Johnny wasn't out doing drugs and having sex, it died with the family actually sitting around the dinner table talking, it died with a sense of community that you actually got to know your neighbors instead of seeing them pull in their garage for a split second before it gets dark, it died with the UNIONS, it died with .......I think you get the point. People like you view the American economy as a casino..........maybe someday you'll hit the jackpot? Yeah keep drinking the koolaid buddy!

See in America we believe that people come first. Profits come second. There used to a time when the worker had power. Their lives and their existence wasn't dictated by a board of directors or shareholders.
Just because you live 50 years in the past doesn't mean the American dream is "dead." Dreams change, societies change, economies change. This is a dynamic society.

Perhaps the reason you think the American dream is "dead" is because you seem to live a static existence in a dynamic society, and make rude and inflammatory posts to people who have "made it."
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