U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 09-25-2011, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,405,550 times
Reputation: 2748

Advertisements

SS is definitely a scheme. It doesn't have the transparency issues that a traditional ponzi scheme would have....i.e., you don't know what you're investing in.

But....(according to wikipedia), the first SS recipient paid $44 into the system and got $20,993 in benefits.

In 1950, there were 16 workers supporting every retiree. Today there are 3. In 2030, it will be down to 2. I think it's a fact, social security has been unstable for decades.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-25-2011, 10:06 PM
 
2,282 posts, read 3,565,349 times
Reputation: 1669
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackjaw View Post
Yes, you have stated this countless times during the non-stop string of fist balled up posts whining about not making enough money and how it's not fa-fa-fa-fair. Having a college degree opens up more opportunities, but doesn't necessarily guarantee you anything.
There you go again, making stuff up about me. When I have complained about my job on previous boards/threads, I complained about how terrible my former employer was; not that I was entitled to more. Most people have been down that road, working for a crappy company/manager who lies to their talented employees to keep them around. I moved on from that company and I am doing pretty well for myself now.

How you're getting this entitlement mentality from me, I'm really not sure. I am a hard worker and I like to see some payoff from my hard work. That is all.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2011, 10:08 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,668 posts, read 18,142,742 times
Reputation: 7285
John, Post 2030 it will rise some (the ratio). 2030 retirees will be mainly baby boom, 2050 will be baby bust.


It won't ever be 16-1, but with a 15.3% tax, employer and employee, 16 to 1 is not required for solvency.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2011, 10:21 PM
 
27,508 posts, read 56,616,202 times
Reputation: 21922
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
There seems to be a bizarre misimpression that any random slothful American can simply hop on the magical "Section 8" program and immediately receive free housing anywhere he wants.

From what I understand, Section 8 is massively "oversubscribed" - if you need housing assistance, and you were to apply for Section 8 today, you'd be on a waiting list for months or years, and you might well get rejected.

Section 8 is primarily a reduced rent-scale program - not a "free" rent program.

And while there are some S8 units in the suburbs, the bulk of them are still in undesirable, lower-income urban areas.
First Section 8 is but one of the housing programs funded through HUD with tax dollars.

The income limit in my city for a family of 4 is more than $60,000 dollars.

Under the Voucher Program, the rent subsidy varies depending on Income... I have had many families pay less than $60 a month and even on two occasions the family's portion of the rent was zero and with one, they received a check each month because they were under housed.

HUD money is good anywhere in the United States and is administered locally.

After the first year, the housing certificate is portable... so yes, you can move form one part of the country to another without strings after the first year... it is called "Porting Out"

The whole point of Section 8 is to mainstream families throughout the community as opposed to the projects of the past... a family could be on Section 8 and rent in Beverly Hills if they found a unit that meets Housing Quality Standards and the rent falls withing the guidelines.

The wait in some areas can easily be years... I have known several that wanted to live in San Francisco but the wait was 5 years... so they got on the list in outlying areas and one got on in 3 months and one year and 3 months later they were in San Francisco.

HUD also has program paths to Home Ownership and many more specifically tailored for certain groups such as disabled.

After Katrina... there was no wait for certificates that allowed these families to move anywhere in the country.

I know the wait for senior housing here is very short... last year it was only a few weeks.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2011, 10:33 PM
 
27,508 posts, read 56,616,202 times
Reputation: 21922
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post

Food isn't even food anymore. No wonder there's so much sickness and obesity in young people.
I come from a long line of farmers... those still carry on the family tradition are certified organic and have been for some time...

Some are in the vegetable side... they grow much in green houses because it eliminates the need for pesticides and extends the growing season.

Others are still Dairy Farmers... no antibiotics or growth hormones... my cousin make gold meddle goat cheese organically and sells everything she makes to a 5 star hotel chain...

Good food is out there... you just need to look or raise it yourself.

My city, Oakland CA, just initiated new ordinances allowing city agriculture and selling on site what is produced... the green organic movement is alive and well.

I raise oranges, figs, pears, persimmons, varieties of apples... all organically on my city lot...

Here's a prospective for you... I manage rental property and one of the nice single family homes I manage is now on Section 8... the elderly couple passed and their daughter couldn't bear selling the place. The home has assorted fruit trees... again, oranges, apples, lemons and apricots.

The Section 8 family has asked me to hire someone to take out the trees because they can't enjoy the yard because of all the rotting fruit... honest truth... or they gave me the option to hire someone to come in each week to pick up the fruit and dispose of it... her two children are on the large side and apparently, from what the mother told me... they don't eat fruit unless it is perfect.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2011, 10:35 PM
 
139 posts, read 583,121 times
Reputation: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname View Post
Please allow me to reality check you:


Funny, 100 years ago they didn't have all these cancers etc that we have now. The ARTIFICIAL ADDITIVES and Growth Hormones are (Many believe) largely to blame for everything from birth defects to cancers.

Doubt it? Cut open a chicken that's been 'quick grown' look at all the tumors.

Oh, and you mean the medical procedures that many can't afford?



Some... but in large part the golden days of the US belong to the earlier 2 generations. We are inheriting the waning empire.


BTDT


No.
PERHAPS if you just want to look in certain areas, in certain years. Now we have pollutants even IN our genetically modified foods!


HAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHAHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It DOESN'T EXIST for our generation as a serious consideration. (Except in what it will STEAL from us before it's final death streak!


100 years ago cribs wern't made from plastics but wood. Last I checked wood didn't have all those nice chemicals in it. This could go ether way .



Yes, some do.

To take American jobs.


-Please not, I'm not one of the incessant 'complainers' about it on here.
Just setting a few things straight.
Wood cribs were painted with lead based paints. Children would tilt their head to the side and gnaw on the slats on the crib ingesting the lead based paint. Babies and children ended up with neurological problems, brain damage and some died. Due to lead based house paints and lead based crib paints the paint industry was changed to be safe and prevent the death of children who put everything in the mouth as they learn about the world and prevent neurological damage and brain damage. 2005 there was a health warning issued for cribs sold to Toys R Us as being painted with lead based paint, so it is a lingering problem. When @Themanwithnoname said cribs are safe they were not joking. Cribs are better today, but sometimes a manufacturer goofs up and ships a crib with lead based paint.

Cribs are not the safest thing on the planet. One my exes siblings was hung between the wall and the crib until dead because the babysitter went across the street to see her boyfriend and left the baby unattended. Prior to reports of children hanging it used to be the slats were wider apart and children put their head in between the slats and were hung to death. A child would climb over the railing, fall, get their head wedged between the slats and the parents would find the child hung to death. Because of this safety mandates were put into place and it is regulated how far apart slats can be on the side of a crib. Babies, infants and children had to die for these safety regulations to come into being. I do not know how many children died, but I do know of people who are missing family members due to the design and construction of a crib.

I know of a family whose child died when the kid put the cords for the window blinds around their neck and the kid was strangled/hung to death. I know of this happening in more than one family. Because of the blinds hanging kids today the blinds cords are not in a loop at the bottom. They are instead not connected and separated strands to prevent more children from dying. Because infants, toddlers and small children died from getting tangled up in the window blinds cords today we have regulations that require window blinds to be constructed differently than in the past.

Homes were deemed to be toxic, abandoned and knocked down due to the fumes venting from the lead based paint. Schools were deemed unfit for habitation. Just like we have black mold today which can cause your home to be condemned schools, homes, places of business were all condemned to being a sick building due to led based paint. Cribs had to be modified and it took some time to create paint that was not led based. It took time to create stains, varnishes, shellacs, etc. that would not kill and infant, give them brain damage, give them neurological damage, give them a learning disability or give them any sort of damage at all. If you are given a hand me down crib, antique crib or vintage crib do not use it. It may be dangerous and/or fatal to your child. Unless you know the year of manufacture do not use it. Unless you know it would pass a safety inspect do not use it. The slats could be too far apart and hang your child to death. The paint could be lead based and damage your child.


Asbestos! How could you forget the killer asbestos? Homes, businesses, schools had asbestos and people died. You must not know people who died from asbestos exposure. Your cancer does not necessarily show up right away, but if you are exposed to asbestos.....oh, I feel sorry for you.

You research: safety recalls, paint recalls, crib regulations, window blind regulations, automotive recalls, asbestos class action lawsuits, crib class action lawsuits, window blind class action lawsuits, auto manufacturer class action lawsuits you will be horrified at how unsafe things used to be. Until you do some search you will no idea how things used to be and how much they have advanced. Go talk to an old timer lawyer who specializes in class action lawsuits. Go talk to old timer FDA people. Go talk to old timer Department of Agriculture people and ask them what they eat and do not eat. You will be surprised. If you want to know how dirty something is from rat feces ask your agriculture inspectors and FDA people. They can tell you. btw - always, always wash your bananas before you eat them because rats nest in the banana trees, defecate on the bananas and urinate on the bananas. Every time you pick up or touch a banana you are touching rat feces and urine. Then when you pick up your sandwich you are getting a mouth full of sandwich along with rat feces and urine. Things are not always what they seem. On the surface of things a banana seems healthy, but not washing your hands after handling the banana or not washing the banana before you put them in your fruit bowl can result in illness. Cribs, paint, buildings, etc. are just like that. If you do not know the history of cribs, paint, buildings, construction supplies, etc. you can become ill. You must know the history of items, product recalls, law enacted to assure safety, class action lawsuits, etc. or you have no idea what has happened before you came into the world. The world did not start with you, me or anyone else. It started millions of years ago. All I can do is educate myself on the history of items, product recalls, class action lawsuits, the history of the regulations on the items, the number of dead in relation to the item, the number of injured in relation to the item, etc. If I do not know the history of whether or not something is safe I could potentially buy a product that is unsafe. I like antiques and vintage things, but I can not buy and use everything that is old because it might not be safe. You have to know which items are OK and which items are unsafe. It is up to the consumer to be careful.

"Buyer beware" as the saying goes. Just because something is on the market does not mean it is safe or works. Fen Phen ring a bell? Look it up. How many died from that? How many needed a heart transplant? How many people had their hearts damaged? It was on the market! That doesn't mean it is safe.

Just like the Ford Pinto car was on the market. That did not mean it was safe. Cars bursting into flames upon impact are not safe. Because of the Ford Pinto and the death counts associated with that car this caused gas tanks to be moved and redesigned, but people had to die for that to happen.

The first cars had NO seat belts AT ALL. Seat belts came much, much later. Shoulder harness belts came even later and are a very recent invention. The NTSB required car manufactures to install lap seat belts or otherwise they would have not done it. Shoulder harness seat belts came later for the driver and front passenger and only very, very recently did we get shoulder harness seat belts for everyone in the car. There were no head rests to prevent whiplash until very recently. Look at old Model A cars and see how safe they are. Look at old cars from the 50s and 60s and tell me would you want to commute every day in that car? Today we have lap seat belts, shoulder harness seat belts, headrests to prevent whiplash, side reinforced doors, roll cages, crumble zones in the front and rear, steering wheels that will not leave a perfect circle in your rib cage and break your ribs as they are designed to go down and break off, gas tanks that do not explode on impact, better mirrors so there are less blind spots, computers to tell us when we are too close to something - and - airbags! Airbags are very, very recent and they do save lives. In the beginning airbags were only on the driver side and then they were in the driver's side and the passenger side. Now we have curtain airbags too. Pretty soon we will have sensors in the rear seats to detect rear passengers and airbags will fire off to save them as well.

btw - airbags can injure you when you get "airbag burn" from the ignition of the black powder/gunpowder they are loaded with, but at least you are alive. You may have burns, but you lived. That was my experience.

If you want to know about water safety ask a technician in the lab for the water department what they find on the beaches after a storm. It will make you sick. HINT: After Valentine's Day and a storm do not go to the beach as you will step over red condoms and be completely grossed out. My friend quit the water department when they made her pick up debris off the beach after storms to bring it to the lab so they could look at the water quality. She couldn't take it anymore picking up garbage off the beach and taking water samples off the beach and on a boat in the ocean. She had enough after she got seasick on the boat and have to pick up condoms that went through the sewer system and ended up on the beach. She told me, "People need to throw away their used condoms in the trashcan and NOT down the toilet. The ones that go through the sewer end up on the beach." However, our beaches are cleaner today due to the efforts of such groups as "Heal the Bay." Environmental groups can and do make a difference. If you look at the website for Heal the Bay you will see their efforts have improved water quality.

http://brc.healthebay.org This is their beach report card you can consult before selecting a beach for swimming, surfing, boogie boarding, skim boarding, body surfing, water skiing, boating, kite surfing, paddle boarding, wind surfing, fishing, SCUBA diving, snorkeling, abalone hunting, lobster diving, etc. You need a license to take abalone, lobster and fish.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2011, 10:41 PM
 
5,730 posts, read 9,145,683 times
Reputation: 7981
Anja T:

How much of that existed in 1900, or is MOST of that 'recent'?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2011, 10:54 PM
 
139 posts, read 583,121 times
Reputation: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
There seems to be a bizarre misimpression that any random slothful American can simply hop on the magical "Section 8" program and immediately receive free housing anywhere he wants.

From what I understand, Section 8 is massively "oversubscribed" - if you need housing assistance, and you were to apply for Section 8 today, you'd be on a waiting list for months or years, and you might well get rejected.

Section 8 is primarily a reduced rent-scale program - not a "free" rent program.

And while there are some S8 units in the suburbs, the bulk of them are still in undesirable, lower-income urban areas.
How do you get Section 8 housing? I thought you had to wait 2-5 years to get it?

Where do you find any housing that is Section 8? Most landlords won't take it. Very, very few apartment complexes advertise that they are Section 8.

I was under the impression Section 8 housing was extremely difficult to get. Am I wrong? Lots of apartment complexes advertise, "Section 8 Not Accepted." So, where do you live in you qualify for Section 8, but landlords will not accept it?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2011, 11:00 PM
 
27,508 posts, read 56,616,202 times
Reputation: 21922
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anja T View Post
Wood cribs were painted with lead based paints. Children would tilt their head to the side and gnaw on the slats on the crib ingesting the lead based paint. Babies and children ended up with neurological problems, brain damage and some died. Due to lead based house paints and lead based crib paints the paint industry was changed to be safe and prevent the death of children who put everything in the mouth as they learn about the world and prevent neurological damage and brain damage. 2005 there was a health warning issued for cribs sold to Toys R Us as being painted with lead based paint, so it is a lingering problem. When @Themanwithnoname said cribs are safe they were not joking. Cribs are better today, but sometimes a manufacturer goofs up and ships a crib with lead based paint.

Cribs are not the safest thing on the planet. One my exes siblings was hung between the wall and the crib until dead because the babysitter went across the street to see her boyfriend and left the baby unattended. Prior to reports of children hanging it used to be the slats were wider apart and children put their head in between the slats and were hung to death. A child would climb over the railing, fall, get their head wedged between the slats and the parents would find the child hung to death. Because of this safety mandates were put into place and it is regulated how far apart slats can be on the side of a crib. Babies, infants and children had to die for these safety regulations to come into being. I do not know how many children died, but I do know of people who are missing family members due to the design and construction of a crib.
You list many examples of how much things have improved over the years...

I would like to comment on the crib since I originally raised the issue...

The young mother that tossed the family heirloom... the crib she, her siblings and her mother were raised in shocked me because she thought a new Chinese crib from Costco was automatically safe... that was until it was recalled.

I saw the antique and it was oiled with vegetable oil... no paint... just lots of intricate carving... the Grandfather was born and raised in the Black Forest area of Germany...

I'm not really qualified to comment... because for the first 3 months, my crib was a dresser drawer... really, got a picture to prove it.

You touched on so many points... like seat belts... Ford offered both seat belts and padded dash in the 50's... the public did not embrace them.

You mentioned Model A's... my first car. It is interesting to note the the Model A was the first production car with a Safety Windshield as Standard... also 4 wheel brakes and shock absorbers... unheard of safety and even more remarkable in a very low priced vehicle.

My commuter car in college for a time was a Ford Pinto... I had the $4 Teflon shield installed to prevent tank puncture... even at that time, many didn't take the car in for the no cost safety upgrade.

It is a wonder how we survived at all...
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2011, 11:09 PM
 
139 posts, read 583,121 times
Reputation: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname View Post
Anja T:

How much of that existed in 1900, or is MOST of that 'recent'?
History of Lead Use - Toxipedia
History of lead based paint per a European site. Isn't this common knowledge? I thought everyone knew this! I mean seriously. You have to live under a rock to have not heard about this. With all the 20/20, Dateline, National News Stories, local news stories, newspaper stories, magazine stories, health warning, PSAs, TV movies, documentaries, Internet stories, on and on. How could you miss it? I'm shaking my head that you have not heard of it. I'm baffled that all the press coverage would pass you by.

Medical Knowledge About Lead, Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center Cincinnati Children's Hospital link to lead poisoning.

Lead poisoning is a big, big deal. It can mess you up so badly. Everyone needs to be aware of lead poisoning and be careful about it. Using an old crib can result in lead poisoning and irreparable damage to a child. Lead poisoning is nasty, nasty business.

Before we questioned mercury in child immunizations causing Autism we questioned lead in our household paint, our work location paint, the paint on a babies crib, lead in gasoline for our car, lead in paint applied to babies toys, children's toys and other uses of lead. If you want to screw up your kid use an old crib. If you want to make sure they are safe check the paint and check the slat width. My mother taught me to never, ever, ever use an old crib due to lead poisoning. Instead buy a new one that has passed safety inspections, did not use lead paint and had the slats at the proper width. Old crib = free, but it could also = toxic lead poisoning. You can buy a lead paint test kit to test the paint in your home or on a crib. Unless the paint is tested and the test says it is free of lead paint I would not use an old crib. That is playing with fire.

"In 1974 it was made law that cribs should no longer be painted with lead based paint. It was discovered that the ingestion of lead (from any source) could cause learning disabilities and other difficulties in young children. The slats of the crib must be no more than 2 3/8 inches apart, this is to prevent your baby from getting his body or head stuck between the bars causing injury or strangulation. The side bar should be 26 inches above the mattress when it is in its lowest position. If your child is more than an inch taller than the sidebar it is time to move him into a regular bed." www.firsttimepregnancy.com/6.html

Last edited by Anja T; 09-26-2011 at 12:29 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top