U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-24-2011, 01:33 PM
 
2,282 posts, read 3,550,408 times
Reputation: 1669

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by slackjaw View Post
I'm not anywhere near 50 years old, and I'm not sure how stating the truth (having a college degree opens more opportunities) and never seeing an application promising a job is "talking big."

I haven't blamed anyone, you are spending a lot of time bitterly raging over things that haven't even been said. I know you posted for some time about being stuck in a crappy job and are underpaid (waa waa I had good grades) but don't take your personal failures and frustrations out on posts that don't even exist.
A college application DOES NOT promise you anything, that is correct and I never argued against that point.

I repeat, IT IS ALL IN THE ADVERTISING. For most kids, they are hardly given the choice as a young adult. They are MADE to feel that if they don't go to college, they will be failures in life. That philosophy NEEDS to change. What also needs to change is the lack of personal financial education given prior to enrollment in college. I remember a friend telling me specifically, "Don't worry about taking out loans, it'll all pay off eventually". What terrible advice to give, and I can say that now because I have gained a clearer understanding of the bigger picture (as do 99.99% of people throughout the course of their life).

So you're not 50+, but you're much older than most kids attending college for the first time. Thus, you have had more time to figure out the mysterious puzzle that is life. Heck, I am only three years out of college and I have figured out a great amount in that time. One is that in most cases, the significant costs of college these days IS NOT worth it if it entails going into significant amounts of debt.

At one time, I had a not-so-good job (in terms of growth potential) with a company that didn't care about me or my success. How that is a reflection on my success as a person is beyond me. I left that company and haven't looked back and now I work for a great company that offers a lot of potential advancement. Even though I have that now, I won't forget where I came from. Just because I'm making decent money now, I won't forget the struggles of coming up from nothing. I won't forget the BS that was told to me as a young man during my last years in high school. I won't forget the lack of education provided to me prior to enrolling in college.

Yeah, I attack your posts, because you continuously post the same uncompassionate rubbish on this forum. At least before, I didn't know whether to take you serious because all of your responses were a feign attempt at humor. You think that because I AM, that everybody else SHOULD BE, too. Like a kiddie pool, there's not a lot of depth in that perspective.

Thanks for the kind DM, by the way.

Last edited by Z3N1TH 0N3; 09-24-2011 at 01:44 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-24-2011, 02:47 PM
 
8,265 posts, read 11,195,775 times
Reputation: 4788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3N1TH 0N3 View Post
A college application DOES NOT promise you anything, that is correct and I never argued against that point.
So we're in agreement

Quote:
One is that in most cases, the significant costs of college these days IS NOT worth it if it entails going into significant amounts of debt.
Someone who spent their initial career angrily posting about their floundering underpaid career (but I got good grades so I deserve more money its not fair wah) would certainly have this perspective, and someone who achieved more success after college would probably have a different one.

Last edited by vter; 09-25-2011 at 03:26 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2011, 02:58 PM
 
1,102 posts, read 1,723,238 times
Reputation: 797
College is mostly lucrative for those who work at the college. Post-secondary education has become a experiential service industry. They sell an experience, they sell the potential benefits of the experience, but they often aren't particularly useful for actually preparing those kids for the reality of the working world. And we're letting our kids buy it hook, line, and sinker. "Pick any major, get a degree, your life will be a cake-walk!" We've let them extract annual price increases of 5-10% or more despite the fact that disposable incomes have stagnated and even gone backwards. We let our kids go 50, 80 or 100k in debt to get liberal arts degrees that qualify them for jobs that pay $13 to $17 an hour.

We need to quit telling our kids they can be well off doing anything they want. We need to steer more of them to technical degrees that actually add value to our society. And of those that aren't cut out to be engineers or systems analysts or materials scientists etc. we need fewer of them to pursue education in low-opportunity fields and more of them to do something other than college like learn a technical trade. Do we need a few history majors around? Sure, but do we need to generate tens of thousands of new ones every year? No, but we do need more people who know how to fix cars and air conditioners and work surveying instruments and CNC machines etc.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2011, 03:58 PM
 
5,725 posts, read 9,110,176 times
Reputation: 7981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3N1TH 0N3 View Post
This post is pure garbage. Go to a good college, that isn't necessarily near you, and tell me how much that will cost. Posts like this are all about frugality and making the most financially frugal choice. Guess what, most kids were told that they need to get into the best programs, not cheap-as-s**t Podunk College that's right next door to mommy and daddy's basement.

I'm going to (Back to) an excellent state school, and this term I'm only taking 15 hours and it's about $2,500 counting all the fees.

-Oh, I moved out of mommy and daddies a LOOOONG time ago!

You are WRONG.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2011, 04:27 PM
 
8,265 posts, read 11,195,775 times
Reputation: 4788
Quote:
Originally Posted by madpaddy View Post
We need to quit telling our kids they can be well off doing anything they want. We need to steer more of them to technical degrees that actually add value to our society. And of those that aren't cut out to be engineers or systems analysts or materials scientists etc. we need fewer of them to pursue education in low-opportunity fields and more of them to do something other than college like learn a technical trade.
Without a doubt. I couldn't imagine the amount of money people invest in a kid who wants to major in something like history expecting it to pay off, and yes people do greatly underestimate how solid a living one can make in skilled trades.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2011, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,017 posts, read 18,865,192 times
Reputation: 32438
Case in point: The daughter of some people I know decided to major in art history. I have a cousin who is a Ph.D. in art history and who teaches at a small college. This cousin warned me of how few jobs there were in art history compared to the number of applicants, and this was in 2006, before our country's economic meltdown. I passed on the information to the parents of this girl, who seemed to sort of resent my intrusion and who informed me that they've always encouraged their children to pursue whatever the children want. Fast forward four years to 2010 (when there were now even fewer jobs in art history) and the girl has her master's degree in that field. Well, guess what? She spent the the next year and a little bit living in her childhood bedroom in her parents' home without any job at all, and she refused to look for anything outside of art history. Then finally she did get a part-time job related to art history, but is still living with her parents. She is their little princess, now 26. (And I keep my mouth shut).
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2011, 05:43 PM
 
2,282 posts, read 3,550,408 times
Reputation: 1669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname View Post
I'm going to (Back to) an excellent state school, and this term I'm only taking 15 hours and it's about $2,500 counting all the fees.

-Oh, I moved out of mommy and daddies a LOOOONG time ago!

You are WRONG.
How about living expenses? How old are you? How much money do you make now?

And if you're so proud of your stellar school of choice, why don't you tell us what it is?

But since we're talking about tuition at "good" schools, here are some facts:

Undergrad at UMich costs anywhere between $6200-7000 for 12-18 credit hours for in-state tuition. That's not including fees or living expenses.

http://ro.umich.edu/tuition/full.php#Upper_Gen

Now consider that a student with an average slate of courses at a good school typically works part time (full time can be possible though, as I did it at times) for close to minimum wage. How do you pay approximately $15,000 per semester (living expenses and tuition), approximately $30,000/yr when you are probably making less than $10k/yr. on your wages?

Please show me where my math is wrong, Mr. noname.

Last edited by Z3N1TH 0N3; 09-24-2011 at 05:57 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2011, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,394,523 times
Reputation: 2747
I think the baby boomers are moral failures.

1st - There are no FACTS presented in school.

A FACT is, college has been increasing faster than inflation for decades! How much did you pay for your college in 1968, Mr Baby Boomer? $50 a semester?

And how much world competition did you face in the 60's or early 70's? Not very much. You had maybe Korea, Japan, Germany and a few others.

If the world is completely different now, then why is all this abstract nonsense allowed in school..."you'll be successful, pick a major, you can pay everything off". They've let a cancer creep into the system....self esteem, social engineering, feeling good, not asking questions. Critical thinking should be heightened in this era, not done away with.

2nd - They've subtley tied students self esteem to college!

I.e. you have to apply yourself, aim high, do your best, reach your potential, etc. They dangle all these abstract notions in front of you....save the world, help the poor, reach your inner potential. And the way to do that = 4 year college (usually $$$).

3rd - It's been a baby boomer racket for 30-40 years.

They grabbed all the valuable degrees years ago (limited supply). Grabbed real estate, political clout, media. They're after every cent (i.e. social security), with seemingly no feelings for those below them.

When you paid $100 in 1968, and now kids are pushed into $50,000 for profits, is that a moral failure? Do they even care?

Baby boomers seem to refuse to look at facts. How many facts are presented in highschool to college ready kids? Not very many. They don't want to show their student loan statements...it would be $0. It would be embarrassing. They don't want to show the working population, 1968 to now. They don't want to show the grade inflation. They don't want to show how employment has massively changed.

They don't want to show how prices are up 800-1,200%. Colleges are glorified country clubs now...expensive athletic fields, big fancy buildings, $400,000 presidents salaries, etc. The students seem to come last. It's all a big game.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2011, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Clovis Strong, NM
3,376 posts, read 5,268,556 times
Reputation: 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anja T View Post
What was the Great Depression generation????? Weren't they lost? My Great-Grandfather ran moonshine during the Great Depression and Prohibition, despite being a Godly Mormon man, in order to feed his growing family. There was no birth control back then, so your family just grew and grew and your money did not expand to meet the needs of your family. My Great-Grandfathers survived being wounded in France while fighting the Germans only to come home and face the Great Depression. Both of them lost sisters and brothers to the 1919 Flu Epidemic that gripped the whole world and was second only to the Black Plague in the number of dead. For some reason we do not talk about the 1919 Flu Epidemic that wiped out a good portion of the world. It is forgotten in our history. For some reason people do not talk about the horrors of trench warfare during WW I. It was so horrific with three sided knives that the Geneva Convention was enacted BECAUSE of the horror of WW I. Some of my family came home in coffin. The rest came home badly wounded multiple times.

Can I find a job? No. I am out of work. Do I have student loans? Yes, I do. Do I feel I am worse off than my Great-Grandparents? No. I am better off. I am much better off. My Great-Grandparents faced hardships I can not even imagine.

I have so many kinds of options for birth control and this was not available to my grandmas let lone my Great-Grandparents. I have color TV. I have cordless phones in the home. I have cell phones. I have desktop computers, laptop computers, tablet computers, iPads, iPhones, the Internet, Google, eBay, CraigsList, etc.

I have modern cars with seat belts, airbags, reinforced doors, crumble zones and the like that have saved my life more than once. I have MRIs, CAT Scans, PET Scans, better X-Rays, better blood tests, better and more accurate lab tests than ever before. My Great-Great-Uncle died of a burst appendix at age 5 because there were no tests back then to determine your appendix was about to burst. Luckily, I live in an age where they can figure out your appendix is about to burst and my life was saved.

I have traveled around on the world on cheap airline tickets that did not exist decades ago. Deregulation of the airline industry means I can go wherever I want when I have the money to buy a ticket. My Great-Grandparents did not have that luxury.

The gas and oil shortages of the 1970s where you could only buy gas on certain days due to the shortages were just like the WW II shortages. This seems to be a distant memory. A whole decade of inflated oil and gas prices and shortages seems to be forgotten.

The 1980s student protests on college and university campuses due to the rising costs of tuition did nothing to halt the rising costs. The cost increases were sometime 150% per year, but no one today remembers this.

My family members had to drop out of school in the 8th grade to go to work to help support the family during the Great Depression. I do not see people going to work at a full-time job at 13 or 14 years old and not allowed to return to school and going through life with only an 8th grade education because their education was cut short due to the Great Depression. You want to talk about a generation that had it tough? Look at the people who made it through the Great Depression without jumping out a window. We have nothing to complain about.

Every couple of decades the economy tanks. That is just how it is. We have the aerospace industry tank and all those people were put out of work and lost their homes to foreclosure. The dot.com industry bubble burst quickly and those people lost their jobs and their homes. It happens. That is just life. We must deal with it the best we can just like everyone else who came before us. We are not the first, nor are we the last generation to have a hard time, but we certainly do NOT have it worse than any other generation before us. We do not have rationing. We do not have shortages like during WW I, WW II and the Great Depression. Other periods in time have been worse. Yes, it is tough right now, but it could be worse. It could be much worse.

Calling today's generation "the lost generation" is inappropriate. It is appropriate to apply that label to the Great Depression generation as they lost everything. They had the Great Depression, the 1919 Flu Epidemic and WW I. That is a lot of hardship. Our hardship does not compare to theirs.
After reading things like this over and over again, it actually makes me glad that I've remained single.
Things could always be much worse than making poorly thought out choices in life.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2011, 06:24 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,849 posts, read 32,023,974 times
Reputation: 22506
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
Young becoming "lost generation" amid recession - CBS News


...many of whom have big student loans on the promise of jobs on graduation.
Many younger people have no clue how to do anything because they have spent the last 20 years with their butts planted on the couch, playing video games, texting and expecting the world to OWE them a living after school. Most of them spent their college years drunk, or chasing the opposite sex, living for Spring Break, and doing "just enough school work" to get by so that their funding would not be pulled out from under them.

Their parents felt guilty because they were stuck in daycare, raised by strangers, so they bought them cars, phones, etc., to make them "happy", and never bothered to instill a sense of duty, or responsibility or give them the idea that there are consequences for their actions.

They don't know how to manage their money, hell, they don't even know how to balance their check book. They can't cook, don't know how to fix *anything* if it breaks, and most of them cannot even COMMUNICATE with another person by looking them in the eye, smiling and speaking coherently.

Now mind you, this is not true of ALL of the younger generation, and the ones that are capable are the ones that are going to run the world one day.

My parents didn't have it easy. They worked hard and they scrimped and saved. I didn't have it easy (I still don't) but I work very hard and am very frugal.

Nobody has it easy. They have to make their own way or suffer the consequences. That's life.

20yrsinBranson
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top