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Old 09-24-2011, 06:39 PM
 
5,725 posts, read 9,106,737 times
Reputation: 7981

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3N1TH 0N3 View Post
How about living expenses? How old are you? How much money do you make now?

And if you're so proud of your stellar school of choice, why don't you tell us what it is?

But since we're talking about tuition at "good" schools, here are some facts:

Undergrad at UMich costs anywhere between $6200-7000 for 12-18 credit hours for in-state tuition. That's not including fees or living expenses.

Full Term Tuition & Fees - Office of the Registrar

Now consider that a student with an average slate of courses at a good school typically works part time (full time can be possible though, as I did it at times) for close to minimum wage. How do you pay approximately $15,000 per semester (living expenses and tuition), approximately $30,000/yr when you are probably making less than $10k/yr. on your wages?

Please show me where my math is wrong, Mr. noname.
I will answer some of your questions, although I will not name the school due to it being none of your business where I live. (It gives me more freedom to post other information)

I am 29 years old and live off my $1,228 Medical Retirement from the Marine Corps and my $918 GI bill.

My School is in the south, a rural area, but only about an hour away from a city of over a million people.

I picked it due to it's low cost of living and because it is in the top 3 schools for my chosen field of study.

Oh, looks like they tacked on a couple more things since the last time I checked. It's right at $3K... STILL nowhere near your $6-$7K per 12-18 credit hours:

Quote:
F002 Assessment Fee $12.00

$0.00
F003 Instrctl Support Fee $60.00

$0.00
F005 Technology Fee $130.00

$0.00
F006 Transcript Fee $7.00

$0.00
F007 Strategic Facilities Init. Fee $150.00

$0.00
F008 Technology Equip Fee $10.00

$0.00
F011 Student Communication Fee $30.00

$0.00
F012 Student Support Fee $30.00

$0.00
F040 Distance Learning Fee $60.00

$0.00
T507 Tuition-O/S-Less Wvr UG-Fall $1,620.00

$0.00
T527 Tuition-O/S-Grad-Less Wvr-Fall $1,242.00

$0.00
V100 Auto Regist-Fall $30.00

$30.00
V124 Fine-Parking/Wrong Color $20.00

$20.00
PTP4 VA-Chapter 33
$3,351.00
$0.00
Term Charges: $3,401.00
Now as to where your math is wrong... on several points.

First lets apply the PEL grant... that's what $2K- $2,500 per term,
Then, in this state residents get $4K- $5K per year to pay for school from the lottery program. (There's school and a good chunk of living expenses taken care of)

Work study, those part time jobs you mentioned, other scholarships...


And as to where your math is wrong... your original premise that you MUST pay $30K per year. I'm not.
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Old 09-24-2011, 08:58 PM
 
3,398 posts, read 4,591,932 times
Reputation: 2411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
Case in point: The daughter of some people I know decided to major in art history. I have a cousin who is a Ph.D. in art history and who teaches at a small college. This cousin warned me of how few jobs there were in art history compared to the number of applicants, and this was in 2006, before our country's economic meltdown. I passed on the information to the parents of this girl, who seemed to sort of resent my intrusion and who informed me that they've always encouraged their children to pursue whatever the children want. Fast forward four years to 2010 (when there were now even fewer jobs in art history) and the girl has her master's degree in that field. Well, guess what? She spent the the next year and a little bit living in her childhood bedroom in her parents' home without any job at all, and she refused to look for anything outside of art history. Then finally she did get a part-time job related to art history, but is still living with her parents. She is their little princess, now 26. (And I keep my mouth shut).
I like this post. I tried to explain this same kind of thing to my son before he started college. I encouraged him to go, but explained that the degree alone won't do it. And even if you get the degree you may have to be willing to work at something else until you can get into what you want to do. There are no guarantees. People that are in college with no direction or idea of what they want to do should maybe consider other options. And after a 2 year degree and mediocre grades my son decided to not to keep on with it. For him it was the right thing to do.

I think it is true that these kids are taught in high school that they will get no where without a college degree. It has to be why my son that hated high school really wanted to go to college so bad. You have to consider that those telling them this are educators and in their mind education is everything. Parents should to guide their kids a little better about the student loans and college.

Still, those of you on hear that are complaining about not rolling in tons of money after college are acting like bitty whiny babies and I think you need to grow up.
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:04 PM
 
3,398 posts, read 4,591,932 times
Reputation: 2411
Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post



They grabbed all the valuable degrees years ago (limited supply). Grabbed real estate, political clout, media. They're after every cent (i.e. social security), with seemingly no feelings for those below them.


Yes, and we are taking it all with us when we go. You may be a total failure yourself, but at least you have us to blame for every bit of it.
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:32 PM
 
48,508 posts, read 88,422,285 times
Reputation: 18187
They must be reprinting old articles form the 70's recession as they said the saqme thing then. Some will and some will not ;like always.
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:20 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,392,743 times
Reputation: 2747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocontengencies View Post
Yes, and we are taking it all with us when we go. You may be a total failure yourself, but at least you have us to blame for every bit of it.
I saw through the scam back in the 90's.

-Went to a community college. Almost no money $0.

-Went to a cheap state school. Veryl little $$$$.

There's so much pressure to go to a 4 year school. It's turned into a myth. I remember thinking....would there really be enough jobs for everyone? This was 1996.

-The baby boomer teachers encouraging us to go to college....no facts presented.

*They didn't show how much they paid. It would have been a pittance.
*They didn't show what the labor market was like. Completely different. It's apples to oranges....but they make it seem like apple to apple (the same thing).

Job creation in this recession isn't even keeping up with the population growth. I've read there has to be 200,000 jobs created a month, for 5 years, just to get back to where we were in 2007.

The teachers we had probably wouldn't have taken the same degrees, if they were graduating today. Something is wrong when the system is pushing college, yet you wouldn't take the same degree as 25-30 years ago. Is that a moral failure?

I think the boomers are about accumulating gains, and handing whatever is left (if they think they should). They saw the gains in 1970, 1975, 1980, 1990. Then....maybe.....give you a little bit by 1995.

A more responsible generation would have started giving gains back in 1995. Before the for profits exploded, and things started getting silly. And the draconian educational cuts.

I think it's funny, all these 58-62 year old boomers trying to hang onto every dime (tenure, benefits), in an educational system that they wouldn't want to go through themselves! Talk about something wrong. What a moral failure.
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:24 AM
 
Location: NJ
18,668 posts, read 18,075,616 times
Reputation: 7284
Your critique of the baby boomer gen is spot on. BTW, I am part of it.

However, no one could have projected just how abominable this present situation is, and yes, now its easy to say (accurately) America's best days are past tense. That changed what could easily be projected apples-to-apples to become the inverse.
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:31 AM
 
27,428 posts, read 56,371,913 times
Reputation: 21808
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
They earn a pittance. I know, as my daughter taught English for a year in Korea and was really taken advantage of. The kids there go to school in TWO full sessions per day, six days a week. The pay and living conditions for her were terrible. A lot of graduates are doing this kind of thing, or joining Americorps, because they are out of work with no job prospects whatsoever. And I commend them.


The current "lost generation" is more "lost" than the pre-war generation because the traditional American model of school-to-job-to-career-to prosperity is largely GONE for them, never to return. Jobs were generated for the Depression era folks by...guess what? WAR. A major world war that was a humanitarian catastrophe generated all those jobs and got America back on its feet in the 1940s and 50s, giving rise to our parents' generation's general success and all the benefits of it, including....guess what? BABIES. Thus the advance of the great Baby Boomer generation, with buying houses, cars, vacation homes, insurances and securities up the wazoo. Those who are now in their 20s and 30s will never have that boom opportunity, the jobs are gone. Guess where...? Cheap labor countries. A new generation of job opportunity could only come from...you guessed it, a WAR economy.
Things were not rosy back in 1982 when unemployment was at a level not seen since the Depression...

Double digit interest rates... know someone that actually had a 16% home loan.

People did what they had to do... a psychology student working on his masters started driving a cab...

Others started their own business ventures because we had too... plenty went into the military and later used the G.I. bill... the same option exists today...

Don't forget that many went to school on the G.I. Bill...

Just trying to give some perspective...
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:37 AM
 
5,409 posts, read 10,329,247 times
Reputation: 4478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Things were not rosy back in 1982 when unemployment was at a level not seen since the Depression...

Double digit interest rates... know someone that actually had a 16% home loan.

People did what they had to do... a psychology student working on his masters started driving a cab...

Others started their own business ventures because we had too... plenty went into the military and later used the G.I. bill... the same option exists today...

Don't forget that many went to school on the G.I. Bill...

Just trying to give some perspective...
But that perspective is out of date and from another time.

That High Interest on the 1982 house payment was for not a Post Housing Collapse priced house -- which is still over-priced, and likely to continue to fall.

The military is maxing out now, and has been putting bars to re-enlistment on for a year.

I would suggest for broader perspectives for US, to consider Post Soviet Russia.
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:37 AM
 
Location: NJ
18,668 posts, read 18,075,616 times
Reputation: 7284
1982 recession was fairly short in duration with a far deeper blue-collar effect, and fewer professional jobs cut permanently. Back than, a layoff spiking the rate unemployed was, more often than not, a layoff..temporary. Its simply a synonym for permanent job loss (firing) now.
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:39 AM
 
27,428 posts, read 56,371,913 times
Reputation: 21808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocontengencies View Post
I like this post. I tried to explain this same kind of thing to my son before he started college. I encouraged him to go, but explained that the degree alone won't do it. And even if you get the degree you may have to be willing to work at something else until you can get into what you want to do. There are no guarantees. People that are in college with no direction or idea of what they want to do should maybe consider other options. And after a 2 year degree and mediocre grades my son decided to not to keep on with it. For him it was the right thing to do.

I think it is true that these kids are taught in high school that they will get no where without a college degree. It has to be why my son that hated high school really wanted to go to college so bad. You have to consider that those telling them this are educators and in their mind education is everything. Parents should to guide their kids a little better about the student loans and college.

Still, those of you on hear that are complaining about not rolling in tons of money after college are acting like bitty whiny babies and I think you need to grow up.
Looking back... I think the biggest value to most of a University Degree is not having to ask the what if questions later in life.

Without a degree, there will always be that question.

Certain professions require degrees... just about no way around it.

We have a local private Registered Nursing program that is expedited for those already having a Bachelor Degree... they do promise in writing job placement to every student completing the curriculum with a certain level of proficiency... they have a track record going back decades... so some higher institutions use job placement in recruiting.
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