I say the Middle Class in America is still doing pretty well (wholesale, deduction)

[CTGirlNoMore]

The difference is one income vs. two incomes. I am single and make decent money, but I struggle like you wouldn't believe since I am one income (I've tried getting a second but keep getting told I am too overqualified even though I'd work for min. wage just for the extra money).

Even when 2 incomes are living the same lifestyle as a 1 income, it's much easier for the 2 income family to save.

[Vinsanity]

Originally Posted by Randomdude

No, actually they dont. The lower classes material well being has been funded by debt or multiple income households, not any increase in wages. The real median wage has not changed almost any in 40 years

Income, Woman and Men - US Census, August 2007

That means that almost all of the gain in household median income, Real Median Income - US Census, August 2007has come from dual income households, not any gains by the standard working man.

yes, but you forgot to point out that, at that income level, most households are still operating on one income earner (a median of 1.35, to be exact): Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

if you scroll down the table, you'll see that as the number of earners approaches 2.0, the income levels are right around the $90k range.

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by Vinsanity

yes, but you forgot to point out that, at that income level, most households are still operating on one income earner (a median of 1.35, to be exact): Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

if you scroll down the table, you'll see that as the number of earners approaches 2.0, the income levels are right around the $90k range.

Most homes are operating on one income, however, the difference in the median household income is largely that ".35" of a person per household additional income.

[wheelsup]

3 year old thread

My wife and I saved a lot on 50k in annual income between the two of us. We owned our cars outright and rented an affordable apartment. One good thing about making that little money is very low taxes, one year I think our federal tax rate was something like 6%.

[Mike from back east]

The Middle Class is clearly NOT doing pretty well, especially in the 3 years since this thread was started (by a long-banned troll).

Here are some current numbers, the middle class isn't just shrinking, it's being wiped out.

Here are just 5 of the 22 stats in the article:

Here are the statistics to prove it:

• 83% of all U.S. stocks are in the hands of 1% of the people.
• 61% of Americans "always or usually" live paycheck to paycheck, which was up from 49% in 2008 and 43% in 2007.
• 66% of the income growth between 2001 and 2007 went to the top 1% of all Americans.
• 36% of Americans say that they don't contribute anything to retirement savings.
• A staggering 43% of Americans have less than $10,000 saved up for retirement.

There are various meanings to this news, among them seem to be:
- The end of the American Dream (do an advanced search, titles only, on that term and find many threads on this theme.
- Delayed retirement for many, no retirement at all for some.
- Home ownership harder to obtain.
- Reduced standards of living.
- Fewer college educations for young people since parents can't afford them.
- Loss of American leadership in the world.
- Smaller families, an even lower birthrate than we already have.
- More backdoor immigration as the money class who run this country continue to drive down wages and benefits.

[Lakewooder]

How do you define "reduced standards of living"?

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by gardener34

You don't have kids? Just wondering. Many people that make $90K a year also have kids. Thus the complaints. You have med and dental bills, food, clothes, etc. for (for most people minimum 2) extra people.

Hi gardener34,

Even with 200k median housing costs one could make it on 50k. I have 2 kids and one income, and while I make more than that, I very well know I could live on that. Most people just don't make it happen.

[stan4]

Originally Posted by Randomdude

Why dont you try living on a "real" middle class income of about 34-55k, in other words, basically cut your family income in half, and live on that for a while. You tell me about how well you are getting by.

If TWO people can't make it on 35 to 55k, they are doing something wrong.

If you assertion is that it's hard to raise a family on that income, well, then don't raise a family if you can't afford it.

Btw, I know plenty of people who make that much, have kids, and are still not in the toilet with debt. It's called renting, living in small spaces, not buying useless crap, and being very, very careful with money.

[stan4]

Originally Posted by gwynedd1

Hi gardener34,

Even with 200k median housing costs one could make it on 50k. I have 2 kids and one income, and while I make more than that, I very well know I could live on that. Most people just don't make it happen.

They don't have the discipline to make it happen.

I know people making a variety of incomes (from 20k to over 2 million!), but it's often the higher income folks who are clipping coupons, foregoing eating out, not buying every latest iphone, etc. Funny how that works.

[Vinsanity]

Originally Posted by stan4

If you assertion is that it's hard to raise a family on that income, well, then don't raise a family if you can't afford it.

Bingo. Another thing people feel they need in addition to more "stuff" is that they HAVE to be able to raise a family, whether they want to or not. I have no trouble telling people that they shouldn't raise a family if they can't afford it, but unfortunately, they won't let petty concerns such as finances get in the way of what is apparently basic animal instinct.

Sure, I can probably afford to raise a family with just my own income in a tiny house in a low-COL exurb while clipping coupons, shopping at discount stores, and having a few bucks left to save, but my life without any dependents is far more preferable to that.