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Old 10-05-2011, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
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Italy got downgraded and Spain is right behind them.
Doesn't look good at all.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Sputnik Planitia
7,052 posts, read 9,834,048 times
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A good short video:

BBC News - Is the euro crumbling?
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:29 AM
 
2,515 posts, read 1,832,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Italy got downgraded and Spain is right behind them.
Doesn't look good at all.
No it isn't good, not at all.
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Stankwell Falls, NC
56 posts, read 35,455 times
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Iceland let its currency fail, nationalized its banking, and threw its local bankers in jail. It told the international banksters and the IMF to go to hell. All the dire consequences predicted for it never materialized and its people are doing quite well and not living in indentured servitude to the banks.
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:55 PM
 
19,346 posts, read 17,088,966 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newonecoming2 View Post
The problem is this. Banks have borrowed money to buy sovereign debt instrument. If Greece defaults then they will default as well. If they default then the people that borrowed money to loan it to them default as well. This is causing a bank run.

And that once again it should make people wonder why we have a system like this. The whole reason why we are here is that banksters used to lend out more specie than they actually had when surprise, surprise there was not enough actual specie in the bank. Yet everyone thought there was. So if everyone thinks there is money, its as good as money. So are we running out of electronic entries and paper?

They should default, but it should not impact the money supply in circulation.
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:04 PM
 
2,515 posts, read 1,832,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
And that once again it should make people wonder why we have a system like this. The whole reason why we are here is that banksters used to lend out more gold that they actually had, when surprise, surprise there was not enough actual specie in the bank. Yet everyone thought there was. So if everyone thinks there is money, its as good as money. So are we running out of electronic entries and paper?
That is money theory
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post


They should default, but it should not impact the money supply in circulation.
Well here is the mechanism by witch the default of Greece will slow the circulation of actual electronic representations of money. If the banks fail then they aren’t there to facilitate the exchange. With out the banks you can’t exchange electronic representations of money. Now if you are afraid that the bank is going to fail you pull your money out or you don’t loan money to the bank. That makes the banks fail. That is what is in process in France as we exchange electronic representations of letters.
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:19 PM
 
19,346 posts, read 17,088,966 times
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Originally Posted by newonecoming2 View Post
That is money theory.
Yes, it is and its fair game. If the domino effect does not allow markets to operate as they should, like punish people who make bad investments, then what kind of money are we using? Third parties should not be impacted. If the argument is being used, then its the theory of how our current money works justifying the action. The ideal money was supposed to be easily stored, divided and not perishable. What we have now is more like ice. Plenty during winter(lots of loans) and then is melts in summer.



Quote:
Well here is the mechanism by witch the default of Greece will slow the circulation of actual electronic representations of money. If the banks fail then they aren’t there to facilitate the exchange. With out the banks you can’t exchange electronic representations of money. Now if you are afraid that the bank is going to fail you pull your money out or you don’t loan money to the bank. That makes the banks fail. That is what is in process in France as we exchange electronic representations of letters.
If private money fails, in the US anyway, simply raise interest rates and shut it down except for those who have their act together. Then large deficits and tax cuts will create new money. Banks that look to go under without making loans can then see if they can make themselves useful charging for services. Either way, the goods and services economy will do just fine with the tax holiday, which is really just "firing" privately created money from banks, and replacing it with intrest free money. Too bad the Europeans didn't create a system to allow them to monetize their own taxing power. Oops.
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:37 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
31,549 posts, read 70,809,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 波斯語 View Post
Iceland let its currency fail, nationalized its banking, and threw its local bankers in jail.
It told the international banksters and the IMF to go to hell.

All the dire consequences predicted for it never materialized
and its people are doing quite well and not living in indentured servitude to the banks.
Iceland had an actually functional (if marginal and tempermental) economy underneath all the shenanigans.
That doesn't really apply to Greece.
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,974 posts, read 22,235,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
You've got it backwards; Greece itself is the parasite. They should never have been admitted to the Eurozone in the first place, and they started way too late putting their financial house in order. Now the German taxpayer is bailing them out.
NO, Greece is a country. Even if the parasite bankers all wither up and die, the sun will rise on Greece tomorrow. Iceland is Bankrupt, now it is free of these bloodsuckers
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:24 AM
 
2,515 posts, read 1,832,047 times
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http://boombustblog.com/BoomBustBlog...apse-Days.html They are talking about a 50~60% hair cut on Greek debt. For those that say that you always get all your money back on sovereign debt instruments they are talking about getting 1/2 or less back. If you bought those bonds with borrowed money then you are going to not be able to pay back 1/2 of the money you borrowed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Yes, it is and its fair game. If the domino effect does not allow markets to operate as they should, like punish people who make bad investments, then what kind of money are we using? Third parties should not be impacted. If the argument is being used, then its the theory of how our current money works justifying the action. The ideal money was supposed to be easily stored, divided and not perishable. What we have now is more like ice. Plenty during winter(lots of loans) and then is melts in summer.
Shakespeare said, nether a borrower nor a lender be. Way back in the day the King of what was the father of our country England made his own money out of wood. We live on an exponential debt curve. We have been for a very long time. Jewish law has years of jubilee where debts are forgiven those were written in antiquity. Back then they only had coins. No paper money. The ancient Greeks taxed their colonies in grain not in gold. They knew that you can't take money out of circulation without bad consequences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
If private money fails, in the US anyway, simply raise interest rates and shut it down except for those who have their act together. Then large deficits and tax cuts will create new money. Banks that look to go under without making loans can then see if they can make themselves useful charging for services. Either way, the goods and services economy will do just fine with the tax holiday, which is really just "firing" privately created money from banks, and replacing it with intrest free money. Too bad the Europeans didn't create a system to allow them to monetize their own taxing power. Oops.
http://www.bearishnews.com/wp-conten...l-debt-gdp.jpg Do you see when the last time we had this much total debt in the US was? The short answer was never. We are as broke as any country on the planet ever was. If we don't restructure our debt or our economy very interesting things will happen and most of them aren't good. We are flirting with hyper inflation with the world's reserve currency. Not good.


The privet money in the US is the world's reserve currency.


Mint coins lots an lots of them and pay off our national debt with them and then have the banks hold them in the fed at no interest. If you mint $14 trillion worth of coins and then have the banks hold them and not let them circulate then they will not cause inflation. It is about time we tax the banks.
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