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Old 10-12-2011, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,016,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
A good education and a high IQ have nothing to do with how good you'll be with money. Academic research by a guy named Zagorsky at Ohio State proved this.
Umm...no that isn't how science works. He didn't "prove that", he did some research that provide support for the conclusion. But the research only looked at 7,000 people, its hard to see how that was a large enough sample. How many of those 7,000 were "super intelligent"? Not many if it was statistically representative of society....in which case how can you draw any conclusion?

Also, the research was about IQ not education....so its not even relevant to what you are commenting to in the first place...

In terms of looking for a link between intelligence and wealth, seems pretty stupid if you don't screen out a critical variable, namely one's desire to build wealth. Often very intelligent people aren't too focused on material wealth, so why are they going to build large amounts to it? Some sort of measure of financial security would be a far better thing to look at.....
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,016,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2 View Post
user_id you might want to read 1984 by George Orwell for examples of Psychobabble (newspeak). You know what it is but don't want to admit it exists.
I've read the book and its not clear how "newspeak" (as in the book) relates to what we are talking about. Are you suggesting that those in English, social science departments, etc speak in some sort of simplified language used to limit express and thought? Odd suggestion really.....

But perhaps I'm getting this all wrong, are you trying to demonstrate psychobabble by example?
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,016,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Is it because it goes against the Middle Class Myth of Education = Success?
Umm...what myth? By any measure more educated individuals are, on average, more successful than less educated individuals.

It would be more like "the myth" that education guarantees success or the converse, that without education you can't achieve success.
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
5,749 posts, read 10,345,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
A good education and a high IQ have nothing to do with how good you'll be with money. Academic research by a guy named Zagorsky at Ohio State proved this. He found that people with high IQs tend to earn more but they don't accumulate more wealth than people with lower IQs.

The ability and desire to save and invest have more to do with one's emotional skill set than one's intellect.

Agree with your post... Not sure if many believe it though. It kind of goes against what the masses have been taught about the importance of attaining the highest education you can at the most exclusive school you can get into. When they hear about all the stories of millionaires with just a minimal education, they think they must be the exceptions - the outliers.

Numerous studies have made a case that, if a person's IQ is above the 120 threshhold, there is little relationship between a higher IQ and more career success and wealth. E.g. There is little measurable difference in lifetime success/wealth between someone with a 120 IQ and someone with a 150 IQ. Other character traits are much more important than IQ for success/wealth.

Also, the book Outliers and the Terman Study present the case that there is not much difference in top career achievements (e.g. attainment of Nobel Prizes, Pulitzer Prizes, Macarthur Awards) between someone who attended a good college (e.g. Washington State, Grinnell) vs. someone from a more elite, top-tier school (e.g. Harvard, MIT).

Some sources...

Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers: The Stories of Success
Jay Zagorsky's National Longitudinal Survey of Youth
K. Stanovich's What Intelligence Tests Miss
R. Wagner's Handbook of Intelligence
Mayer, Salovey, and Caruson, Models of Emotional Intelligence
Daniel Goleman, 75 years Later, Still Tracking Geniuses, NY Times
John Tierney, Smart Does Not Equal Rich, NY Times
Terman and Melita Oden Studies

From a personal perspective, every Chicago millionaire/highly successful person I know attended just a good state school in the Midwest. Though I obviously realize, living in the Midwest will lead me to encounter more success stories from this area. But I can conclude that the good state schools (e.g. Big 10) will probably be good enough for my kids, just like they were good enough for me.

Last edited by GoCUBS1; 10-12-2011 at 12:06 PM..
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Land of Free Johnson-Weld-2016
6,470 posts, read 16,345,351 times
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I'm not surprised. I had to evict a guy who had TWO phd's and one was from Columbia. I am pretty sure he had severe mental problems, but a shiny degree (especially a PHD) is not a guarantee of success.
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Old 10-16-2011, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,679 posts, read 24,732,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinkytoes View Post
I'm not surprised. I had to evict a guy who had TWO phd's and one was from Columbia. I am pretty sure he had severe mental problems, but a shiny degree (especially a PHD) is not a guarantee of success.
People don't like to hear that you have to work very hard and be very good at what you do to make a decent living. Their parents never mentioned that part to them.
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Old 10-16-2011, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,016,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
People don't like to hear that you have to work very hard and be very good at what you do to make a decent living. Their parents never mentioned that part to them.
You need to work hard to make a decent living? News to me....
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Old 10-16-2011, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Land of Free Johnson-Weld-2016
6,470 posts, read 16,345,351 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
People don't like to hear that you have to work very hard and be very good at what you do to make a decent living. Their parents never mentioned that part to them.
I don't agree with that, necessarily. The reason a lot of "ivy league" schools have successful graduates is because the wealthy traditionally sent their kids to those schools.

The students who traditionally graduated from those schools, would have high-profile positions if they wanted them regardless, because their families had connections. The schools had cachet as a result of the fact that rich, successful people went there, and non-privileged graduates MAY get preference for a job...but not necessarily.

And IMO definitely not in a tight job market. You either need to be in an in-demand field, or if you want an ivy league degree to translate into a decent job, to make some connections. But people take care of their own first, so don't expect a Dartmouth degree to automatically translate into $$ or opportunity.

BTW for a non-wealthy person of a certain background (non-alumni etc) to get into and graduate from Dartmouth and the ilk...students DO need to work hard.

But as we all are learning recently, hard work and desert do not necessarily translate into sucess.
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Old 10-16-2011, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,016,914 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinkytoes View Post
The students who traditionally graduated from those schools, would have high-profile positions if they wanted them regardless, because their families had connections. The schools had cachet as a result of the fact that rich, successful people went there, and non-privileged graduates MAY get preference for a job...but not necessarily.
All the Ivy-Leagues offer 100% funding for smart kids from low income backgrounds, these kids also do well after graduating from these schools so its not just the kids background that examples their future success...
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Old 10-16-2011, 12:23 PM
 
Location: MN
378 posts, read 705,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
All the Ivy-Leagues offer 100% funding for smart kids from low income backgrounds, these kids also do well after graduating from these schools so its not just the kids background that examples their future success...
True, and the well-known Krueger and Dale study of college selectivity and future earnings found that low-income and minority students are the only groups that actually benefit from attending more selective colleges.
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