The recession turns 4 years old....and still no prospect of recovery! Will it ever end? (judgment, taxes)

[ibioiniui]

To answer the OP's question:

Everyone is aware that the "recession" will only get worse. Most Americans of the older Americans have accepted that and are ensuring they are able to live out the rest of their lives in comfort and with dignity. Everyone understands that the "rich" and our government leaders are, above all, humans like the rest of us, and will do their best to protect their immediate family and friends from the fallout of our country's negligence.

The American youth are educated enough to know that their future is being thrown away. The majority will work hard and continue pushing, hoping that the American Dream will live on despite high student loan debt, very low (and stagnant) starting pays which are half of what their parents would have received decades ago. What the rest do (protest, etc), won't matter (at least for a few years), since they truly have no real power, and the rich do not fear them.

From a purely objective, amoral POV, the only real resolution is a destructive war that eliminates the millions/billions of lives that have no real stake or value in their respective societies, allowing the rest to build from the ashes and prosper. Just like WW1 and especially WW2.

(To Long: Didn't Read Summary)
As others have said, get used to the new economy.

[cnyscapes]

America will not get straightened out until our elected officials actually do there job without being influenced by big business. The number of lobbyists that influence them with illegal and legal donations, partys and straight up payoffs is mind boggling.

Add to that the fact that they are more concerned with getting themselves re-elected for there next term, they are not willing to make the tough decisions needed to actually fix the economy.

Just like getting our federal debt under control is going to take way more than a 4 year presidential term, but Obama is too scared to make real cuts and is more concerned with band-aid jobs bill so he can look good for next years election.

[newonecoming2]

Originally Posted by bchris02

Next month America will have been in recession for four years - or 48 months...and guess what, there is still NO sign of any kind of recovery on the horizon. Things are as bad as they have ever been and continue to get worse. More and more people are losing their jobs and those lucky enough to find new jobs generally have to settle for something well below their qualifications just to be able to pay the bills. Foreclosures continue to skyrocket and people continue to lose their homes in record numbers, threatening large financial institutions (like it or not if corporations like Bank of America fail, we ALL will suffer tremendously).

Too much debt and not enough income.http://www.bearishnews.com/wp-conten...l-debt-gdp.jpg The break in the graph back in the 1930's was the failure of a large number of banks.

Originally Posted by bchris02

Retail shops and restaurants are closing faster than ever leaving large shopping centers completely abandoned, putting a strain on the commercial real estate market.

The only bubble completely re-inflated by the Fed's bubble blowing was the CRE market.

Originally Posted by bchris02

Obama promised us hope, change, and a brighter future and now we are almost through his first term and I can't think of a time since the Great Depression when things have been so bleak.

That is because we haven't been in this kind of economic trouble from then until now.

Originally Posted by bchris02

The worst part of all, the forecast is for things to continue getting worse, with no recovery in the foreseeable future.

We need the income to pay for the houses or we need to write off as bad a lot of debt. Getting the income is faster than the alternative. A 4X on the minimum wage would get us the income to stop the foreclosures that and enough printed money as cash to everyone to push the AD line up far enough to eliminate the dead weight loss from the higher minimum wage.

Originally Posted by bchris02

That leads me to my question...will this recession ever end? A couple years ago most economists expected us to be well on our way to recovery by this point, even midst all the doom and gloom of late 2008-early 2009, but it turns out even they were too optimistic. The Internet tinfoil hat "doom and gloomers" got it completely right in 2008.

So...will this recession ever end?

Yes it will but not until you chose between writing off at least 50% of the debt in the US or have a 200% inflation in GDP without more debt being added.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by bchris02

Next month America will have been in recession for four years - or 48 months...and guess what, there is still NO sign of any kind of recovery on the horizon.

You're not in recession, and the economy has already recovered.

Originally Posted by bchris02

Things are as bad as they have ever been and continue to get worse. More and more people are losing their jobs and those lucky enough to find new jobs generally have to settle for something well below their qualifications just to be able to pay the bills.

And what's wrong with that?

This is the way it was always supposed to be.

You interfered, politically, economically, financially, militarily, socially and culturally with the course of human events to influence them to your favor so that you could gain an unfair advantage.

Now, you neither have the power nor the ability to continually interfere, and so everything is moving back to the way it was always supposed to be before you started interfering.

Originally Posted by bchris02

Foreclosures continue to skyrocket and people continue to lose their homes in record numbers...

Yeah, so? What is wrong with that? Nothing.

The Laws of Economics are inviolable. I cannot violate them, and neither can you nor any government nor any group of people nor any god-thing.

You can only bend the laws and attempt to violate them for a brief period, before the Laws force a correction. That's the beauty of Economics and why I love it so much. It is self-correcting, just like Science, but where Science needs men to realize they've made a grotesque error, like claiming it is impossible for there to be mountains on the Antarctic continent, or that there was a "Land Bridge" for people to cross into the Americas, or that benzene-rings are not at all harmful to humans, Economics does it all by itself, and no one can stop it or prevent it from happening.

The reason there are foreclosures is because those people were never supposed to ever be in their own home. You turned a blind eye while the government and other groups, and even the very people being foreclosed upon, violated the Laws of Economics and tried to force those people into a home that they never should have had in the first place.

And now, Economics is simply correcting everyone's sins.

Those people were taken advantage of by evil banks? Then why aren't they filing legal malpractice lawsuits? Their real estate lawyers should have advised them that the loans were bad.

They didn't pay a real estate attorney to review the loan documents? Why, because they couldn't afford one? If you can't afford a real estate attorney, then that is the first clue that you cannot afford your own home. When you can afford to pay a real estate attorney, then you can think about actually buying a home. That's their fault, and they should bear the burden for their stupidity.

They didn't know they were supposed to consult with a real estate lawyer? Then that is the first clue that they are financially immature and not mature enough to handle their own home. That's why there are public libraries; to educate yourself about something so that you are no longer ignorant and in the dark.

A real estate attorney is a neutral 3rd Party. They don't give a damn if you buy the house or not, they only care if you're about to be screwed over for whatever reason, since you are paying the measly $75 or $150 or $250 consultation fee for them to protect you.

If they had put 20% to 50% down on the home, like every single Middle Class generation before them, then their monthly mortgage payments would have been more manageable, and they wouldn't be paying $300,000 in interest on a home that is now valued at $115,000.

And if they had practiced sound financial sense, like the vast majority of people in very single Middle Class generation before them, they would have had 6 months of mortgage payments sitting in the bank, along with 6 months worth of electric, natural gas, cable, cell-phone, credit card, car payments, car insurance and grocery bills, which would have allowed them to weather the storm better.

Of course, that's the real problem, isn't it?

You're in a consumption driven economy. It's either consume or lose your job, except that ends up with you having to spend every penny you make (so you can't save any money), and then spend $Thousands you don't have borrowing against your credit cards, and then even that fails, so you end up refinancing your home in order to roll all of the credit card debt you never should have had to begin with into the mortgage.

And your Consumption Economy is over-laid with a FIRE Economy. Switzerland with a population of 7 Million can have a FIRE Economy and be successful. The US with a population of 308 Million cannot. It's just that simple.

You were always doomed, and it was always a matter of when, not if.

Originally Posted by bchris02

... threatening large financial institutions (like it or not if corporations like Bank of America fail, we ALL will suffer tremendously).

Maybe you can try to explain that to the OWS crowd.

One of the criticisms of the central bank (the Federal Reserve) is that it moved way too late to inject liquidity into failing banks. When it finally acted, it was too little; too late. Had the central bank acted promptly, understand it would not have prevented the Great Depression, but it would have lessened the severity.

People were dying to start businesses or expand existing businesses, but couldn't because the banks had no money to loan, or in those areas of the country that were not affected by the Great Depression, the banks were deathly afraid of panics and runs, and didn't want to loan out what little money they had.

Originally Posted by bchris02

Retail shops and restaurants are closing faster than ever leaving large shopping centers completely abandoned, putting a strain on the commercial real estate market.

But of course. Those are consumer driven enterprises that thrive almost entirely on disposable income. So long as people have disposable income, those sectors of the economy fair well. If not, then they suffer.

Originally Posted by bchris02

Obama promised us hope, change, and a brighter future and now we are almost through his first term and I can't think of a time since the Great Depression when things have been so bleak.

If you drank the Kool-Aid, then you know where you can find "sympathy" in the dictionary.

Originally Posted by bchris02

The worst part of all, the forecast is for things to continue getting worse, with no recovery in the foreseeable future.

You have recovered. Your job market will remain soft until you elect leadership to your government at all levels, and even if you could manage to do that (you cannot -- it is not in your nature) it will never be the same. Not ever.

Originally Posted by bchris02

That leads me to my question...will this recession ever end?

It ended long ago.

Originally Posted by NJBest

Um, we just had reported growth in the economy? We have a tech boom going on? I don't think we're in a recession. We're in the new economy. Get used to it.

Well, there you go.

Originally Posted by bale002

If you are a globally uncompetitive, whining, welfare-begging on hind legs, average worker in a country of early industrialization, the recession will last another 10-30 years or until such time as your standard of living, on at least relative decline, more or less equals that of the average Chinese or Brazilian, for example, on the ascent. You will all meet somewhere in a mediocre middle. And you deserve nothing more and nothing less.

We're in the new economy. Get used to it.

Good Luck!

There you go, again.

Originally Posted by Des-Lab

Whether or not it's over I guess depends on who you ask.

It doesn't really depend on who you ask.

The moronic idiots at NBER define recovery as two quarters of positive GDP (but only when it is politically convenient for them to do so).

Most traditional economists define recovery as exceeding the benchmark for two consecutive quarters (I define it as exceeding the benchmark for 4 consecutive quarters).

Your GDP decreased a measly $500 Billion then increased to its original (benchmark) point and then has increased for 4 consecutive quarters.

Your economy has recovered from recession, although it is still recessionary (and will remain so through the end of the decade).

Originally Posted by Lincolnian

All real costs have risen substantially for everyday needs. Food, energy, healthcare, insurance, education, and commodity-based products have all risen more than the reported rate of inflation. The cost of buying a house has dropped in most cases from 2006 levels but many homes are still substantially above their 2000 values. Wages however, have not kept up with inflation during the last decade.

If you have Real Inflation, then your wages rise. There's nothing you nor anyone else can do about it. That's right, your wages rise even if you don't want them to rise, even if your employer doesn't want them to rise. If you have Real Inflation of 35% then your wages increase 35%. If Real Inflation is 100%, then your wages increase 100%.

That is the nature of Real Inflation. In other words, it is impossible to have Real Inflation and wages not rise.

You do not have Real Inflation, at least not yet (but you will in about 12-13 years).

What you are describing is Cost Inflation. Cost Inflation has nothing to do with the Federal Reserve and everything to do with you. Cost Inflation occurs when demand for anything exceeds the supply, or when the supply declines and demand remains constant or increases.

If you want food, health care, education and "energy" prices to stop rising, then there is a very simple solution:

STOP CONSUMING THEM.

I would say increase production to increase supply, but at this stage of the game, that would end up increasing prices.

If you want cheaper food prices, stop putting corn in your gas tank and in the beverages you drink (that you don't need to be drinking).

That would help tremendously.

Originally Posted by Lincolnian

Even where home prices have dropped many are still paying a higher amount of property taxes on their home than they did last year.

So? Whose fault is that? That is the fault of ignorant immature home-owners who should not be living in those homes anyway, because they are way too immature.

Every county in the US (and there are thousands) have different policies, but in very general terms, like Hamilton County, Ohio as an example, your property's value is assessed every 6 years. That means you will continue to pay on the value of the home as it was assessed for a period of 6 years.

Now, there is animal, a strange one indeed, called "the public library" and if you go there, the very fine staff at the public library will guide you to the government section where you can read and review the rules regarding the assessment of property taxes, and you can file a petition for a review so that the value of your home is correctly assessed and you pay the correct tax.

Or, you can just pick up the telephone and call your real estate attorney, and s/he will take care of it for you.

Of course, you have to be financially mature enough and have the common sense to retain or consult with a real estate attorney before you buy the home.

Did I not previously mention the tremendous value of real estate attorney's?

It costs money to hire a real estate attorney? Would you spend $150 to avoid spending $15,000 or to save $15,000?

I would.

Originally Posted by Lincolnian

I built an energy efficient, passive solar home. I have a high efficiency propane furnance and it is super insulated. Even though I purchase 650 gallons of propane I get hit with a minimum use charge because a home my size is supposed to use more. This put me in a higher price point which essentially negated the 25% less fuel I used compared to similar-sized homes that are less efficient.

Dude, real estate attorney.

Originally Posted by pvande55

It is not "normal" to have nearly 10 percent out of a job, another 10 percent in a job below their qualifications, and have to look for a job for over a year.

That's funny, because it was "normal" in the 1950s and you all think that was just a peachy time for Americans in the US.

Originally Posted by pvande55

This depression is the worst we have seen in a lifetime and we need to take corrective action that will really work. Obama will likely lose to some Republican bozo who darn well better get the economy repaired.

Elect who you want. It matters not. Your fate is sealed and no president can change it.

Originally Posted by Escort Rider

I smell a false assumption, namely that it's within the power of any president to "get the economy repaired".

I could not have said it better.

This grotesque stupidity all started with the 1992 Election when the Media frothed about the economy, and Americans drank the Kool-Aid and became convinced that a president actually could do something.

Originally Posted by Escort Rider

The president is not completely powerless either, of course, but he cannot just do whatever he wants; there is Congress to consider, and staying within Constitutional limits so things don't get set aside by the Surpreme Court. Even more important may be global factors beyond the control of the president. Then throw in consumer actions which, collectively, may or may not be helping matters.

Government can influence the economy at best, and nothing more. And of course I'm talking about a government in a country that uses Capitalist property theory combined with the Free Market System.

Naturally, the government could nationalize all industries and switch to a Command Economic System, and you'd all be in a living hell, but we're assuming hypothetically that won't happen.

The way government can influence an economy is through regulation and taxation, and also through monetary and fiscal policies.

Regulations are not inherently bad or evil. They are only that when regulations force business, industry and persons to pay to comply. Regulations that do not cost money for compliance generally have a negligible effect (but they might also hinder).

Taxation can strip consumers at all levels (home, business and industry) of disposable income or income in general which reduces or limits economic transactions between all consumers at all levels.

And then of course, government policies. Forcing banks to loan money under penalty of legal action to people who should never be allowed to touch or even look at a credit card just so you can say that home ownership increased under your administration is a stupid policy.

Originally Posted by Shuffler

Whatever we're in, 'Bammer got stuck holding the sack of chit that manifested itself as a result of decisions made by others many years/administrations ago. We'd be no better off with somebody else in charge...

That's true.

I don't fault Obama for what has happened, but I do fault him for failing to exhibit even one iota of leadership, and for failing to take actions to address issues.

He has demonstrated a total lack of foresight, being focused on the "here and now" for political reasons, mostly to satiate his own ego, instead of developing a long term plan for the future.

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

The upper classes have great reason to have a vested interest in keeping a robust middle class (they don't get this ). The class pyramid should be stalwart at the middle. If that part of the pyramid collapses, the social chaos/threat you describe is what will happen.

That's right. And the Upper Class cannot be blamed if the Middle Class acts stupidly with their money.

Originally Posted by Lincolnian

The decline of America does not have to be a self-fulfilling prophesy. There are interventions that can be made to right the ship.

The best you can do for now and through the end of the decade is stabilize the ship so that tug boat can take it in tow.

Originally Posted by ibioiniui

From a purely objective, amoral POV, the only real resolution is a destructive war that eliminates the millions/billions of lives that have no real stake or value in their respective societies, allowing the rest to build from the ashes and prosper. Just like WW1 and especially WW2.

That won't work. It's a different world. If you did that, then you would also have to accept a 1940s life-style, which would be a life-style sans laptops, Wi-Fi, cell-phones, Plasma TVs and everything else you know and love.

[yellowsnow]

I believe this is the new economy. And some of the other posters are right. We won't improve till everyone else does. Thank you, globalization.

The future is grim and it's not going to improve significantly any time soon. We were used to working hard, being successful, and being paid well for our efforts. The new world order demands we work harder, for less.

We, individually, need to change the way we spend and the way we look at life in general. The Good Old Days are gone for good.

[BigJon3475]

Originally Posted by yellowsnow

I believe this is the new economy. And some of the other posters are right. We won't improve till everyone else does. Thank you, globalization.

The future is grim and it's not going to improve significantly any time soon. We were used to working hard, being successful, and being paid well for our efforts. The new world order demands we work harder, for less.

We, individually, need to change the way we spend and the way we look at life in general. The Good Old Days are gone for good.

If you mean new world order = all the other people on the planet finally have a chance I'm for that.

And no, that doesn't mean I'm some socialist/communist pig. That would mean I'm actually for everyone having a chance, not having it given to them, or taken away from them, through some bureaucracy.

[las vegas drunk]

Originally Posted by Mircea

You're not in recession, and the economy has already recovered.



And what's wrong with that?

This is the way it was always supposed to be.

You interfered, politically, economically, financially, militarily, socially and culturally with the course of human events to influence them to your favor so that you could gain an unfair advantage.

Now, you neither have the power nor the ability to continually interfere, and so everything is moving back to the way it was always supposed to be before you started interfering.



Yeah, so? What is wrong with that? Nothing.

The Laws of Economics are inviolable. I cannot violate them, and neither can you nor any government nor any group of people nor any god-thing.

You can only bend the laws and attempt to violate them for a brief period, before the Laws force a correction. That's the beauty of Economics and why I love it so much. It is self-correcting, just like Science, but where Science needs men to realize they've made a grotesque error, like claiming it is impossible for there to be mountains on the Antarctic continent, or that there was a "Land Bridge" for people to cross into the Americas, or that benzene-rings are not at all harmful to humans, Economics does it all by itself, and no one can stop it or prevent it from happening.

The reason there are foreclosures is because those people were never supposed to ever be in their own home. You turned a blind eye while the government and other groups, and even the very people being foreclosed upon, violated the Laws of Economics and tried to force those people into a home that they never should have had in the first place.

And now, Economics is simply correcting everyone's sins.

Those people were taken advantage of by evil banks? Then why aren't they filing legal malpractice lawsuits? Their real estate lawyers should have advised them that the loans were bad.

They didn't pay a real estate attorney to review the loan documents? Why, because they couldn't afford one? If you can't afford a real estate attorney, then that is the first clue that you cannot afford your own home. When you can afford to pay a real estate attorney, then you can think about actually buying a home. That's their fault, and they should bear the burden for their stupidity.

They didn't know they were supposed to consult with a real estate lawyer? Then that is the first clue that they are financially immature and not mature enough to handle their own home. That's why there are public libraries; to educate yourself about something so that you are no longer ignorant and in the dark.

A real estate attorney is a neutral 3rd Party. They don't give a damn if you buy the house or not, they only care if you're about to be screwed over for whatever reason, since you are paying the measly $75 or $150 or $250 consultation fee for them to protect you.

If they had put 20% to 50% down on the home, like every single Middle Class generation before them, then their monthly mortgage payments would have been more manageable, and they wouldn't be paying $300,000 in interest on a home that is now valued at $115,000.

And if they had practiced sound financial sense, like the vast majority of people in very single Middle Class generation before them, they would have had 6 months of mortgage payments sitting in the bank, along with 6 months worth of electric, natural gas, cable, cell-phone, credit card, car payments, car insurance and grocery bills, which would have allowed them to weather the storm better.

Of course, that's the real problem, isn't it?

You're in a consumption driven economy. It's either consume or lose your job, except that ends up with you having to spend every penny you make (so you can't save any money), and then spend $Thousands you don't have borrowing against your credit cards, and then even that fails, so you end up refinancing your home in order to roll all of the credit card debt you never should have had to begin with into the mortgage.

And your Consumption Economy is over-laid with a FIRE Economy. Switzerland with a population of 7 Million can have a FIRE Economy and be successful. The US with a population of 308 Million cannot. It's just that simple.

You were always doomed, and it was always a matter of when, not if.



Maybe you can try to explain that to the OWS crowd.

One of the criticisms of the central bank (the Federal Reserve) is that it moved way too late to inject liquidity into failing banks. When it finally acted, it was too little; too late. Had the central bank acted promptly, understand it would not have prevented the Great Depression, but it would have lessened the severity.

People were dying to start businesses or expand existing businesses, but couldn't because the banks had no money to loan, or in those areas of the country that were not affected by the Great Depression, the banks were deathly afraid of panics and runs, and didn't want to loan out what little money they had.



But of course. Those are consumer driven enterprises that thrive almost entirely on disposable income. So long as people have disposable income, those sectors of the economy fair well. If not, then they suffer.



If you drank the Kool-Aid, then you know where you can find "sympathy" in the dictionary.



You have recovered. Your job market will remain soft until you elect leadership to your government at all levels, and even if you could manage to do that (you cannot -- it is not in your nature) it will never be the same. Not ever.



It ended long ago.



Well, there you go.



There you go, again.



It doesn't really depend on who you ask.

The moronic idiots at NBER define recovery as two quarters of positive GDP (but only when it is politically convenient for them to do so).

Most traditional economists define recovery as exceeding the benchmark for two consecutive quarters (I define it as exceeding the benchmark for 4 consecutive quarters).

Your GDP decreased a measly $500 Billion then increased to its original (benchmark) point and then has increased for 4 consecutive quarters.

Your economy has recovered from recession, although it is still recessionary (and will remain so through the end of the decade).



If you have Real Inflation, then your wages rise. There's nothing you nor anyone else can do about it. That's right, your wages rise even if you don't want them to rise, even if your employer doesn't want them to rise. If you have Real Inflation of 35% then your wages increase 35%. If Real Inflation is 100%, then your wages increase 100%.

That is the nature of Real Inflation. In other words, it is impossible to have Real Inflation and wages not rise.

You do not have Real Inflation, at least not yet (but you will in about 12-13 years).

What you are describing is Cost Inflation. Cost Inflation has nothing to do with the Federal Reserve and everything to do with you. Cost Inflation occurs when demand for anything exceeds the supply, or when the supply declines and demand remains constant or increases.

If you want food, health care, education and "energy" prices to stop rising, then there is a very simple solution:

STOP CONSUMING THEM.

I would say increase production to increase supply, but at this stage of the game, that would end up increasing prices.

If you want cheaper food prices, stop putting corn in your gas tank and in the beverages you drink (that you don't need to be drinking).

That would help tremendously.



So? Whose fault is that? That is the fault of ignorant immature home-owners who should not be living in those homes anyway, because they are way too immature.

Every county in the US (and there are thousands) have different policies, but in very general terms, like Hamilton County, Ohio as an example, your property's value is assessed every 6 years. That means you will continue to pay on the value of the home as it was assessed for a period of 6 years.

Now, there is animal, a strange one indeed, called "the public library" and if you go there, the very fine staff at the public library will guide you to the government section where you can read and review the rules regarding the assessment of property taxes, and you can file a petition for a review so that the value of your home is correctly assessed and you pay the correct tax.

Or, you can just pick up the telephone and call your real estate attorney, and s/he will take care of it for you.

Of course, you have to be financially mature enough and have the common sense to retain or consult with a real estate attorney before you buy the home.

Did I not previously mention the tremendous value of real estate attorney's?

It costs money to hire a real estate attorney? Would you spend $150 to avoid spending $15,000 or to save $15,000?

I would.



Dude, real estate attorney.



That's funny, because it was "normal" in the 1950s and you all think that was just a peachy time for Americans in the US.



Elect who you want. It matters not. Your fate is sealed and no president can change it.



I could not have said it better.

This grotesque stupidity all started with the 1992 Election when the Media frothed about the economy, and Americans drank the Kool-Aid and became convinced that a president actually could do something.



Government can influence the economy at best, and nothing more. And of course I'm talking about a government in a country that uses Capitalist property theory combined with the Free Market System.

Naturally, the government could nationalize all industries and switch to a Command Economic System, and you'd all be in a living hell, but we're assuming hypothetically that won't happen.

The way government can influence an economy is through regulation and taxation, and also through monetary and fiscal policies.

Regulations are not inherently bad or evil. They are only that when regulations force business, industry and persons to pay to comply. Regulations that do not cost money for compliance generally have a negligible effect (but they might also hinder).

Taxation can strip consumers at all levels (home, business and industry) of disposable income or income in general which reduces or limits economic transactions between all consumers at all levels.

And then of course, government policies. Forcing banks to loan money under penalty of legal action to people who should never be allowed to touch or even look at a credit card just so you can say that home ownership increased under your administration is a stupid policy.



That's true.

I don't fault Obama for what has happened, but I do fault him for failing to exhibit even one iota of leadership, and for failing to take actions to address issues.

He has demonstrated a total lack of foresight, being focused on the "here and now" for political reasons, mostly to satiate his own ego, instead of developing a long term plan for the future.



That's right. And the Upper Class cannot be blamed if the Middle Class acts stupidly with their money.



The best you can do for now and through the end of the decade is stabilize the ship so that tug boat can take it in tow.



That won't work. It's a different world. If you did that, then you would also have to accept a 1940s life-style, which would be a life-style sans laptops, Wi-Fi, cell-phones, Plasma TVs and everything else you know and love.

Since you do this all the time, I must ask. You refer to the USA as if you are a foreigner, yet you claim to live in Ohio. Which is it?

[Philip T]

Originally Posted by yellowsnow

I believe this is the new economy. And some of the other posters are right. We won't improve till everyone else does. Thank you, globalization.

Or kill globalization. Then it is RIP Globalony.

It was/is pretty much just upper end and corporate fantasy. In the end it fails due to market mis-match, anyway.

The real wars will come shortly after that.

The future is grim and it's not going to improve significantly any time soon. We were used to working hard, being successful, and being paid well for our efforts. The new world order demands we work harder, for less.

So stop.

Let the new world odor die.

We, individually, need to change the way we spend and the way we look at life in general. The Good Old Days are gone for good.

So when were those Days?

[Philip T]

Originally Posted by ibioiniui

To answer the OP's question:

Everyone is aware that the "recession" will only get worse. Most Americans of the older Americans have accepted that and are ensuring they are able to live out the rest of their lives in comfort and with dignity. Everyone understands that the "rich" and our government leaders are, above all, humans like the rest of us, and will do their best to protect their immediate family and friends from the fallout of our country's negligence.

The American youth are educated enough to know that their future is being thrown away. The majority will work hard and continue pushing, hoping that the American Dream will live on despite high student loan debt, very low (and stagnant) starting pays which are half of what their parents would have received decades ago. What the rest do (protest, etc), won't matter (at least for a few years), since they truly have no real power, and the rich do not fear them.

From a purely objective, amoral POV, the only real resolution is a destructive war that eliminates the millions/billions of lives that have no real stake or value in their respective societies, allowing the rest to build from the ashes and prosper. Just like WW1 and especially WW2.

(To Long: Didn't Read Summary)
As others have said, get used to the new economy.

Pretty much.

Only other choice is dump the greed.

Which would be a pretty big trick to pull off in the One Nation Under The Dollar.

[NJBest]

Originally Posted by Philip T

Or kill globalization. Then it is RIP Globalony.

It was/is pretty much just upper end and corporate fantasy. In the end it fails due to market mis-match, anyway.

The real wars will come shortly after that.




So stop.

Let the new world odor die.




So when were those Days?

Why would you want to kill globalization? It's done great things for third world countries.