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They are not part of da guberment. The Federal Reserve stock is owned by the member banks. Only the appointment of the chairmen has any government oversight. That is like saying a city contract with a company that does garbage collection is part of da guberment. That is very much how it is.
When was the last time da guberment interfered with a single policy? The house, senate, the administration, and the judiciary fight all the time. Never once has this occurred in a meaningful way with Fed policy. Any vetos or new bills? The brilliant idea was to make them independent of politics. That is always sold as its strength. That was what so good about Stalin too. The decision making was independent, efficient and decisive without all the bickering.
"Its not a bug, its a feature. "
i think its very much a part of the government and bernanke does consult with the executive branch when he takes or doesnt take action. there is also significantly more involvement with government than the appointment of the chairman.
the federal reserve is the largest holder of treasuries. they are pumping fake money into the government.
i think its very much a part of the government and bernanke does consult with the executive branch when he takes or doesnt take action. there is also significantly more involvement with government than the appointment of the chairman.
the federal reserve is the largest holder of treasuries. they are pumping fake money into the government.
Who cares about money being pumped into da guberment? 90% of the "fake money" is created by the banks and most of this money isn't going to production. That is what I find so astounding. Why doesn't anyone care about this and keep talking about the national debt? We would be better off if pimps created counterfeit money and spent it into the economy because at least we are not paying interest on it. Do you get it? The commercial banks print most of the money. GS was leveraged 30 to 1 which means for every dollar of "fake guberment money" printed, they printed 30 more.
Many people fail to understand da guberment is a proxy of special interests. Da guberment isn't behind it. People keep voting for the republicrats presented to them by these special interests. I'd have to blame voters, and special interest before any politician who is simply a reflection of the will involved to act.
someone else had to print that fake money and they borrowed it.
ummm, no Einstein.
Since you do not know this -- IF -- you could shut down the debate routine, you may -- just saying *may* -- be able to listen and learn something?
It never is "printed" as money. The various "banks" operate on 10% or less of what we might consider real or "printed" money. The rest is just credit allocated here, there, anywhere or no where.
As noted the real wild ones like Bear Stearns get out to over a 30 (fake) to 1 (real) ratio.
Since you do not know this -- IF -- you could shut down the debate routine, you may -- just saying *may* -- be able to listen and learn something?
It never is "printed" as money.
thank you for repeating what has already been said in this thread several times. thats why i used the phrase "printing fake money." it was already clear that this money isnt actually printed.
but i think the current disagreement is that gwyn is saying the banks are printing the fake money, when i think they are taking on the fake money as debt but they arent the one creating it. the government is filling the market with the fake money.
thank you for repeating what has already been said in this thread several times. thats why i used the phrase "printing fake money." it was already clear that this money isnt actually printed.
but i think the current disagreement is that gwyn is saying the banks are printing the fake money, when i think they are taking on the fake money as debt but they arent the one creating it. the government is filling the market with the fake money.
pay closer attention next time.
Then what you are saying is that the fractional reserve system has absolutely no effect on actual available credit. It like leaving a gun in a locker. The first time around the bank creates one key. The next time around the banker creates another key. So if it gets to the point of 10 keys, even though there is one gun, we must assume that there will be 10 times the amount of shooting because of so many keys in circulation. You are the one not paying attention. Philip is paying attention just fine.
Let us make one thing very clear .The banks rent out the keys to the locker, not the gun.
thank you for repeating what has already been said in this thread several times. thats why i used the phrase "printing fake money." it was already clear that this money isnt actually printed.
but i think the current disagreement is that gwyn is saying the banks are printing the fake money, when i think they are taking on the fake money as debt but they arent the one creating it. the government is filling the market with the fake money.
No, really, Captain -- it is not the "big evil gubermint." It is the banker/corporations who run the gubermint and make this possible for themselves.
It is not even printed, per se -- just issued as credits. Make believe money available for any use real or make believe, as well.
I am familiar with the game because I used to play it. A good while back -- early '90s -- I was so fed on dealing with commercial banks I decided to become one -- almost sort of it.
Was in grad school at the time -- and this was prior to deep internet research, so I sat down at the University library with about 10 big thick banking and regulation books and after reading two days straight -- I got up and opened a Trust Company and I could just "issue" credit and Letters of Credit. Just like the banks issue credit in lieu of paper money notes.
If folks accept it, it is all the same thing. This is the same thing the banks do. There is no real money backing any of it -- except whatever reserve limits may require. That is why it collapsed when they kept backing more and more crazy crap.
I could have millions floating at the same time -- which was big numbers to us at the time -- and we quit using the banks in my contracting group for anything but cashing customers' checks.
But if any wise guys are reading this and saying . . . hey . . . I could do that, too . . . The banks paid the .gov to change the Trust Company laws so that after 2001 you could no longer do the game.
Quote:
pay closer attention next time.
Man, it must be hard for you to learn anything new.
No, really, Captain -- it is not the "big evil gubermint." It is the banker/corporations who run the gubermint and make this possible for themselves.
It is not even printed, per se -- just issued as credits. Make believe money available for any use real or make believe, as well.
if the government is being corrupted by corporations and bankers than it is in fact "the big evil gubermint" that is the problem. its the government's fault that it is a corrupt government.
once again you repeated that the money isnt physically printed. that is probably the 7th time it has been said here, but you like to think you are saying something new. good point timmy!
if the government is setting the rules about the reserves banks need to hold onto, if government is creating more money for banks to lend out and if government is cutting interest rates, then its the government's fault our money is becoming worthless.
Last edited by CaptainNJ; 11-12-2011 at 03:09 PM..
No, really, Captain -- it is not the "big evil gubermint." It is the banker/corporations who run the gubermint and make this possible for themselves.
It is not even printed, per se -- just issued as credits. Make believe money available for any use real or make believe, as well.
I am familiar with the game because I used to play it. A good while back -- early '90s -- I was so fed on dealing with commercial banks I decided to become one -- almost sort of it.
Was in grad school at the time -- and this was prior to deep internet research, so I sat down at the University library with about 10 big thick banking and regulation books and after reading two days straight -- I got up and opened a Trust Company and I could just "issue" credit and Letters of Credit. Just like the banks issue credit in lieu of paper money notes.
If folks accept it, it is all the same thing. This is the same thing the banks do. There is no real money backing any of it -- except whatever reserve limits may require. That is why it collapsed when they kept backing more and more crazy crap.
I could have millions floating at the same time -- which was big numbers to us at the time -- and we quit using the banks in my contracting group for anything but cashing customers' checks.
But if any wise guys are reading this and saying . . . hey . . . I could do that, too . . . The banks paid the .gov to change the Trust Company laws so that after 2001 you could no longer do the game.
Man, it must be hard for you to learn anything new.
Philip T,
I can't rep you any more because it seems I don't have enough credits...What a difference it makes to actually start reading. When I actually read the Wealth of Nations, I noticed that I had been lied to by the neoclassical junk economics. Then I discovered people like Michael Hudson and Eric Janszen. Michael Hudson then introduced me to people like John Stuart Mill and Henry George. Bill Still of course let me know what some of our most respected politicians would have thought about what is going on today like Jefferson and Lincoln. Wish I could vote for Andrew Jackson today.
if the government is being corrupted by corporations and bankers than it is in fact "the big evil gubermint" that is the problem. its the government's fault that it is a corrupt government.
once again you repeated that the money isnt physically printed. that is probably the 7th time it has been said here, but you like to think you are saying something new. good point timmy!
Who said all the money is physically printed? Let me answer that for you. No one. I find it strangely inconsistent that you choose to attack da guberment that you yourself admit is a proxy by corporations and bankers, but then bypass the banks who are an inflationary proxy to the dollar .
Either way what are we all arguing about? We know that both the bankers and corporations and government are really the same beast working together. So what are we going to do about it? As far as I am concerned, without monetary reform, we are not getting anywhere.
If you want to make the argument that we are going to need to solve this by political confrontation with our corrupt government, then you may consider me your ally.
So what is the solution?
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