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Old 12-15-2011, 06:28 PM
 
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Bicycles would make everyone healthier, and save the environment at the same time. I remember going to Beijing in the mid-90's, and everyone was riding bicycles. I went to Taipei a few weeks later, and everyone was riding mopeds in what was considered a more modern city.In the mid-90's NYC had a bike trend going too. It is still an efficient mode of transport for delivery boys at least.It would only work for most people if companies installed public showers everywhere so workers could shower after the strenuous bike ride and before getting to their desks.
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:20 AM
 
11,368 posts, read 46,978,471 times
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T-Wad, you've done it again ....

There's no way in he** that your passion for bicycles will make minute fraction of a percent dent in the transportation needs of the country's food production ...

For those of us who live in the mid-continent "fly-over country" where the distances are vast and we produce most of the grains, corn, wheat, and similar product that you and every other city dweller depends upon for survival ... let alone a host of other essential products for your daily lives ... a bicycle ain't ever gonna meet the transportation requirements on any scale of personal or commercial needs. Let alone those of us who provide essential services to the regional industries where it's not uncommon to put in 500 to 1,000 mile weeks of driving to our accounts and still have time to be home for our personal time.

Until you can figure out how to economically and efficiently haul 40,000 lb loads of consumer essentials by bicycle, you haven't solved anything .... or even personal transportation where the inclement weather presents a substantial challenge for many months of the year. Nor do you address the transportation issues for those who are of an age where physical limitations preclude the use of a bicycle for even routine & local transportation; not everybody is constrained by sloth and poor physical condition to not being able to ride a bicycle any distance, if at all. I'll even go so far as to venture that someday you too will not be able to ride due to issues beyond your control .... What will you do then for your shopping, entertainment, recreation, or medical trips?

I'll suppose that you envision a delivery system of bicycle messengers hauling 100 lb loads of consumer goods ... until you need to pay the cost of such transportation and delivery. It'd take 400 bicycle freighters taking a lot of time at 12-15 mph to come anywhere close to delivering the volume and weight of consumer goods that one driver at 65 mph can deliver in a matter of hours. That typical driver earns $50,000/year ... what are you going to pay the bicycle delivery riders? How much will the traffic bear in additional costs?
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:08 AM
 
1,655 posts, read 2,610,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad View Post

T-Wad, you've done it again ....

There's no way in he** that your passion for bicycles will make minute fraction of a percent dent in the transportation needs of the country's food production ... Funny, other countries get much of their farm production to local markets with bicycles or horse carts.

For those of us who live in the mid-continent "fly-over country" where the distances are vast and we produce most of the grains, corn, wheat, and similar product that you and every other city dweller depends upon for survival ... let alone a host of other essential products for your daily lives ... a bicycle ain't ever gonna meet the transportation requirements on any scale of personal or commercial needs. Let alone those of us who provide essential services to the regional industries where it's not uncommon to put in 500 to 1,000 mile weeks of driving to our accounts and still have time to be home for our personal time. In time more and more services and business will return to local sourcing.

Until you can figure out how to economically and efficiently haul 40,000 lb loads of consumer essentials by bicycle, you haven't solved anything .... or even personal transportation where the inclement weather presents a substantial challenge for many months of the year. Nor do you address the transportation issues for those who are of an age where physical limitations preclude the use of a bicycle for even routine & local transportation; not everybody is constrained by sloth and poor physical condition to not being able to ride a bicycle any distance, if at all. I'll even go so far as to venture that someday you too will not be able to ride due to issues beyond your control .... What will you do then for your shopping, entertainment, recreation, or medical trips? If it ain't local it can't be a consideration. Folk's faced this problem for most of man kinds time on earth and we will again.

I'll suppose that you envision a delivery system of bicycle messengers hauling 100 lb loads of consumer goods ... until you need to pay the cost of such transportation and delivery. It'd take 400 bicycle freighters taking a lot of time at 12-15 mph to come anywhere close to delivering the volume and weight of consumer goods that one driver at 65 mph can deliver in a matter of hours. That typical driver earns $50,000/year ... what are you going to pay the bicycle delivery riders? How much will the traffic bear in additional costs?You can cast a local economy in the mold of oil driven ecnomies.
Your ideas are bucolic fantasy. It does not logistically work in a country that has over 300 million people, with 60% of those people living in urban areas, to locally source goods on a large scale. The days of the local family farm are mostly gone, replaced by corporate farms that ship food on a global scale.

We will figure out how to make our motorized transportation more efficient before switching to the bicycle en masse.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:51 AM
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Intelligent growth in cities can in fact greatly reduce (not eliminate) the need the truck in food. States like Oregon that have tightly controlled urban growth boundaries are the perfect example of how it can be done - farms are mere minutes (even by bike) from where the people live. And the farms that are farther out can bring their goods to the farmer's market (or to the grocery store...). There's no need to haul a head of lettuce or a tomato 1500 miles when it can be grown within walking distance.

Of course, this does mean that there's insufficient urban sprawl to facilitate the enormous McMansions many people seem to think they need.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Intelligent growth in cities can in fact greatly reduce (not eliminate) the need the truck in food. States like Oregon that have tightly controlled urban growth boundaries are the perfect example of how it can be done - farms are mere minutes (even by bike) from where the people live. And the farms that are farther out can bring their goods to the farmer's market (or to the grocery store...). There's no need to haul a head of lettuce or a tomato 1500 miles when it can be grown within walking distance.

Of course, this does mean that there's insufficient urban sprawl to facilitate the enormous McMansions many people seem to think they need.
In general, I agree. Although I have to say I think the "urban growth boundary" concept can be easily abused by NIMBYs who don't want any growth whatsoever. This kind of thing happens a lot in California and it makes rents and home prices totally unaffordable.
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:33 PM
 
11,368 posts, read 46,978,471 times
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Originally Posted by mustang84 View Post
Your ideas are bucolic fantasy.

As one who is a farmer/rancher, I think I know rather well what it takes to produce my products from raw goods and to get my products to market. I'm a very small producer, yet my farm output is measured in tons per acre each year ....

and my strongest marketplace for my poultry and livestock meats are my "local harvest" consumers who don't want industrial production food products in their diet. Still, however, I cannot transport my product to the consumers without using heavy transport rather than bicycles or horse cars.


It does not logistically work in a country that has over 300 million people, with 60% of those people living in urban areas, to locally source goods on a large scale. The days of the local family farm are mostly gone, replaced by corporate farms that ship food on a global scale.

So are you saying that those 60% of the population cannot get their goods delivered by bicycle? Corporate farms produce in the volumes and tonnage that has to be moved in a timely manner ... whether locally or globally. And globally means shipping across oceans, which aren't well served by bicycle messengers towing horse carts, are they?

We will figure out how to make our motorized transportation more efficient before switching to the bicycle en masse.
Care to identify those countries that get most of their farm goods/products to the consumers with horse carts or bicycles? Outside of some very small areas, I'd bet that most of the countries depending upon such transportation systems are considered "third world" economies simply because they can't efficiently or effectively supply their market demands.

It's quite true that folk survived without heavy transport for centuries, as well as the concept of a "vacation" was foreign to many generations with limited travel options. Are you advocating that we all should return to those days of mostly local occupations/pastimes/recreations due to limited heavy transport?
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:28 PM
 
5,725 posts, read 9,110,176 times
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Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
Care to identify those countries that get most of their farm goods/products to the consumers with horse carts or bicycles? Outside of some very small areas, I'd bet that most of the countries depending upon such transportation systems are considered "third world" economies simply because they can't efficiently or effectively supply their market demands.

It's quite true that folk survived without heavy transport for centuries, as well as the concept of a "vacation" was foreign to many generations with limited travel options. Are you advocating that we all should return to those days of mostly local occupations/pastimes/recreations due to limited heavy transport?

I've seen places in broke ass 3rd world countries with no electricity...

They have a truck.
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Old 12-20-2011, 12:05 PM
 
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I just had a sudden flashback at China circa 1990s where everyone was wearing gray caps and pajamas tooling around on bikes.
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Old 12-20-2011, 01:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname View Post

I'm 6 ft tall, a shade under 200 pounds and I can see my 6 pack.

Not the Car's fault any more than it is the spoons!
Nice
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Old 12-22-2011, 03:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Nice bean counting. Did you count the health problems due to lack of exercise and smog? I always see fatties in their SUV kind of jiggling a bit if the idle is too high.
ahahaha
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