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Old 12-29-2011, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,145 posts, read 20,373,358 times
Reputation: 14041

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...but I'm about ready to change my tune. Sure, we are standing on the summit of Hubble's peak, 16+ trillion dollars in federal debt is a hell of a hole we've dug ourselves and I'm not gonna see a penny of my Social Security in 30 years...

But, the technology is now in development (and already exists in many cases) to keep civilization from collapsing.

Imagine, a solar powered roof of 2,400 sq feet (the average size of a single family home in America) on every suburban home, interconnected on the power grid and imagine how much power it would produce! Imagine getting a check from the power company every month instead of a bill!

I see the efficiency and price of solar panels becomes ever more favorable every year; you can get a 200+ watt 3'X5" solar panel starting at around $300 dollars right now and prices just keep getting better. Solar Panels and Cells - Solar Panels by Watt - 200 Watts and Greater - Solar Sphere Work is being done that will make today's panels seem ridiculously inefficient and overpriced too. And if you don't like the solar panel look, you will be able to get solar shingles too. Roof shingles powered by solar energy - shingles photovoltaic solar panels roof shingles - photovoltaic shingles - shingle

Next, imagine an electric car that gets comparable range to a gas powered car and can be charged faster than you can fill a gas tank. New advances in batteries utilizing nanotechnology may make it possible within less than a decade. Nano Battery (Nanotechnology Battery)

We can save those oil sands and oil shale for our other petroleum needs... which would be greatly reduced if we stopped using oil as fuel.

Imagine the new companies, new jobs and new fortunes waiting to be made just from that! And that's just the tip of the technological iceburg. I am continually astounded by the new advances comming out almost daily.

We potentially have a very bright future! The world isn't ending and suprisingly enough, technology can save us this time!!!

On the other hand, if we sit around the proverbial mead hall, drinking and waiting for Ragnarok, guess what will happen? Yep... Ragnarok.

Don't give up, the future is not yet written and we have the tools and materials we need to build a brighter, better future. If we fail as a civilization, it will only be because the majority decided to give up and die.
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
17,993 posts, read 16,466,713 times
Reputation: 17885
Wasn't solar panel production off shored to Mexico for the most part?

And isn't most of the oil production used for things other than fuel? Industry requires huge quantities of it. Everything from lubricants to plastics.

Not to dull your optimism, but there are definite challenges that lay ahead, and an inept political system that cannot solve even the simplest of problems. Free markets are a wonderful thing, and have a tendency to efficiently solve challenges and problems. The biggest problem of all though seems to be bloated bureaucracy, at a time when we can afford it the least. I don't honestly think we can say we have a free market in America anymore. Everything is either over regulated, subsidized, or otherwise rendered uncompetitive. Just some issues that should be considered.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:32 PM
 
19,337 posts, read 16,942,875 times
Reputation: 7515
The national debt isn't a hole. Its the money supply.
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Old 12-30-2011, 11:17 AM
 
Location: WA
5,538 posts, read 22,586,520 times
Reputation: 6288
Where would the funding come from for the panels... who would clean/maintain them... who would replace them as they fail... who would approve/fund a major overhaul of the grid... where would the money come from for the proposal that the utility companies send out checks?

This is a strategy that is based upon wishful thinking, not a real plan.
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:21 PM
 
81 posts, read 105,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
The national debt isn't a hole. Its the money supply.
Narrowly defined money supply is the money printed by the Fed. More broadly defined it is the money created through the fractional banking system in place. Gov't debt is no more apart of the money supply than any other type of debt. This is due to the independence of the Fed Reserve.
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Old 12-31-2011, 12:09 AM
 
Location: stuck in the woods with bears and moose
23,052 posts, read 22,101,469 times
Reputation: 41337
Whatever happened to all the solar hype in the 1970s? People were getting solar panels on their roofs and then all of a sudden - poof. It was over.

One thing was Reagan put an end to the tax credits for people who got solar. He helped to kill it but I've like to know if the solar back then was greatly inferior to the solar we have now. It still seems to be out of the reach of the average person for affordability.
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Old 12-31-2011, 12:02 PM
 
8,238 posts, read 8,638,271 times
Reputation: 11791
I hate to say I'm a "doomer" -- but I'm not too optimistic.

1) The world is just crazy, I guess it always has been, but I'm 50 now it just seems like an awful lot of factors are converging, or will converge in the next couple of decades.

2) NOT to get too religious, I'm just explaining my point. I think man(kind) is basically a base creature with good (Gd spirit) inside. I just think things will get worse. I think the 'last and evil days' are coming.

3) I think America will be a country of haves and have nots to the point of going back to the dark ages and medieval. I DEFINITELY see a time when all who CAN, live in gated, guarded communities, rarely come out...and the poor are carrying torches, roaming and marauding in the streets.

People do crazy things when their economic lives are threatened. (Look at the people killing their families over frigging the mortgage collapse and unemployment situation. That's crazy. One guy killed his gamily on CHRI STMAS DAY, after they'd opened presents, for goodness sake)

All great civilizations and empires have had their hey-day (Egypt, Ottomans, Japan, Britian, Rome, African) -- and their fall. America has been the 'big dog on the block' for a while now -- and will continue to be....for a good while more, MAYBE. But we'd better get our act together!!!

Because the Chinese are no joke.....there are 6 billion of them AND they own a lot of our debt. (ANYONE can see how that can go badly -- and not in our favor)

And India is right on our tail as well....there are 1.3 billion of them.
Brazil is smaller by population but in terms of economies - a player at the world table.
Russia, Iran, North Korea....all wildcards.
The middle east is not economically a challenger -- but we seem bent on always being involved over there -- and of course technology has allowed certain people who are no fans of America to bring their fight to our very shores.

America has always stepped up, met -- and overcome every challenge. But we'd better be very careful going forward.
THIS AINT 1776...or even 1945.

I'm overall sort of pessimistic (because I sure don't see politicians doing jack %#& different).
And since I didn't live during the 'greatest' generation -- to be honest -- I don't know if many Americans would make the sacrifices needed to keep America great if we were really challenged for our world position.

Are we too soft, too pampered, to used to a 'chicken in every pot,' food on the table, and video games to risk our very lives like the colonists did?
ARE WE WILLING TO DIE TO BE FREE, or is being the world's indentured servant "Not so bad, when you think about DYING as the alternative? After all indentured servitude, is better than out-and-out SLAVERY right?

I'm not optimistic long term. But having a certain religious belief, also believe this earthly world is not my home -- I'm "in this world, and not of it" and that WHATEVER happens I'll be OK. Gd is in control. I'm a spirit in a flesh body on this earth for a little while. (Hopefully I won't have to be suffer while I'm here.)
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:19 PM
 
28,691 posts, read 31,304,402 times
Reputation: 29720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
...but I'm about ready to change my tune. Sure, we are standing on the summit of Hubble's peak, 16+ trillion dollars in federal debt is a hell of a hole we've dug ourselves and I'm not gonna see a penny of my Social Security in 30 years...

But, the technology is now in development (and already exists in many cases) to keep civilization from collapsing.

Imagine, a solar powered roof of 2,400 sq feet (the average size of a single family home in America) on every suburban home, interconnected on the power grid and imagine how much power it would produce! Imagine getting a check from the power company every month instead of a bill!

I see the efficiency and price of solar panels becomes ever more favorable every year; you can get a 200+ watt 3'X5" solar panel starting at around $300 dollars right now and prices just keep getting better. Solar Panels and Cells - Solar Panels by Watt - 200 Watts and Greater - Solar Sphere Work is being done that will make today's panels seem ridiculously inefficient and overpriced too. And if you don't like the solar panel look, you will be able to get solar shingles too. Roof shingles powered by solar energy - shingles photovoltaic solar panels roof shingles - photovoltaic shingles - shingle

Next, imagine an electric car that gets comparable range to a gas powered car and can be charged faster than you can fill a gas tank. New advances in batteries utilizing nanotechnology may make it possible within less than a decade. Nano Battery (Nanotechnology Battery)

We can save those oil sands and oil shale for our other petroleum needs... which would be greatly reduced if we stopped using oil as fuel.

Imagine the new companies, new jobs and new fortunes waiting to be made just from that! And that's just the tip of the technological iceburg. I am continually astounded by the new advances comming out almost daily.

We potentially have a very bright future! The world isn't ending and suprisingly enough, technology can save us this time!!!

On the other hand, if we sit around the proverbial mead hall, drinking and waiting for Ragnarok, guess what will happen? Yep... Ragnarok.

Don't give up, the future is not yet written and we have the tools and materials we need to build a brighter, better future. If we fail as a civilization, it will only be because the majority decided to give up and die.
Some good points here

I think the potential is always there for us to overcome our problems. I see (small) signs that Americans are shapping up. The question is...will we do it fast enough to beat the collapse? Personally, I don't think so....but the seeds of positive change are being planted. After the crash, they may be more easily able to take root and bloom more fully.
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:22 PM
 
28,691 posts, read 31,304,402 times
Reputation: 29720
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
I don't honestly think we can say we have a free market in America anymore. Everything is either over regulated, subsidized, or otherwise rendered uncompetitive. Just some issues that should be considered.
I agree . We have Corporate Cronyism on the one hand and Socialism on the other. 2 different methods that accomplish the same end of consoiidating wealth, power, and control.
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:46 PM
 
3,335 posts, read 2,702,551 times
Reputation: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
...but I'm about ready to change my tune. Sure, we are standing on the summit of Hubble's peak, 16+ trillion dollars in federal debt is a hell of a hole we've dug ourselves and I'm not gonna see a penny of my Social Security in 30 years...

But, the technology is now in development (and already exists in many cases) to keep civilization from collapsing.

Imagine, a solar powered roof of 2,400 sq feet (the average size of a single family home in America) on every suburban home, interconnected on the power grid and imagine how much power it would produce! Imagine getting a check from the power company every month instead of a bill!

I see the efficiency and price of solar panels becomes ever more favorable every year; you can get a 200+ watt 3'X5" solar panel starting at around $300 dollars right now and prices just keep getting better. Solar Panels and Cells - Solar Panels by Watt - 200 Watts and Greater - Solar Sphere Work is being done that will make today's panels seem ridiculously inefficient and overpriced too. And if you don't like the solar panel look, you will be able to get solar shingles too. Roof shingles powered by solar energy - shingles photovoltaic solar panels roof shingles - photovoltaic shingles - shingle

Next, imagine an electric car that gets comparable range to a gas powered car and can be charged faster than you can fill a gas tank. New advances in batteries utilizing nanotechnology may make it possible within less than a decade. Nano Battery (Nanotechnology Battery)

We can save those oil sands and oil shale for our other petroleum needs... which would be greatly reduced if we stopped using oil as fuel.

Imagine the new companies, new jobs and new fortunes waiting to be made just from that! And that's just the tip of the technological iceburg. I am continually astounded by the new advances comming out almost daily.

We potentially have a very bright future! The world isn't ending and suprisingly enough, technology can save us this time!!!

On the other hand, if we sit around the proverbial mead hall, drinking and waiting for Ragnarok, guess what will happen? Yep... Ragnarok.

Don't give up, the future is not yet written and we have the tools and materials we need to build a brighter, better future. If we fail as a civilization, it will only be because the majority decided to give up and die.
DOOMER ALERT!

1 poorly timed Coronal Mass Ejection (solar flare). SpaceWeather.com -- News and information about meteor showers, solar flares, auroras, and near-Earth asteroids

Ruins the whole solar power / electric car dream.

Currently we are approaching Solar cycle peak. Which hasn't been here in quite sometime.
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